95May07 6:02 pm from Danarchy
 Religious debate! 

   95May07 10:48 pm from ;
ummm... god sucks.   

   95May07 11:12 pm from rage
There is no God. 

   95May08 11:09 am from tbob
There is me, there is you, there is God; right in there behind your eyes.  God 
is the vernacular for the essence of universe. 

   95May08 1:46 pm from Vagabond Girl
God. Doesn't neccessarily connotate a gender, but people still feel the need
to put "dess" on the end of it. Are we just weird, stupid, or insane? Or is it
the English language's fault?

   95May08 3:36 pm from Discobolus
 I like the english language, dammit. 

   95May08 4:20 pm from ;
i think we're all spaztically femminist.  we should spell god 'gyd'. 

   95May08 6:01 pm from Briareos
Pronounced, "Gid"? 
 
 Vag, that's only natural, to want to add -dess to the end of God. 

   95May09 12:39 am from Wired
Gidess? 
 Something like giddiness, only more pointless? 

   95May09 3:25 pm from ;
no you fool, it'd be "giddess" not "gidess".  sheesh. 

   95May09 5:43 pm from Discobolus
  Well, this is getting stupid. 

   95May09 9:34 pm from Vagabond Girl
I am Doctress Fruitopia! :) 

   95May10 11:28 am from Danarchy
   HPoM should come back.  :) 

   95May10 11:34 pm from Pet
 Anyway, ya'll know me as the High Priest of Moo and ever since my new found 
faith in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior, I've been arguing with several users 
fer bit now.  Proly tomally I'll repost the last bit o' discussion so I don't 
have start in a vacuum and maybe get a serious thang going 'gain like I had 
before.  Anyway, if ya'll didn't know it before, since February I've been a 
born-again Christian and can now count myself among all those Bible-thumpin' 
Christians who don't care what you think of them but just want you to 
eventually realize your inescaple sin and turn to Jesus Christ as your Lord 
and Savior.  This has been a complete 180 for me as far as values and belief 
systems go so... If you thought you had an idea where I was coming from 
before... ya'll can know* where I'm coming from by just a'pickin' up yourself 
a copy of the Bible and start a'readin' the New Testament.  BTW, just for the 
record, I'm not doing all this for my health ya gotta understand.  I'm giving 
glory to God my Savior by going out and talkin' to ya'll 'bout Christianity n' 
stuff.  N' know what?  I guessI can really say that I honestly love ya'll even 
though I know* that some of you proly don't want to hear this stuff from me 
'cause deep down, you know* it's the truth and the truth hurts.  Believe me, 
before I could really* become a Christian, I had to realize that I really was 
less than dirt in the eyes of God(yes, God does* indeed exist.  I talk to Him 
daily.) and as such really had no chance of ever doing anything good except* 
through Jesus Christ.  See that's really the key to the whole thing.  By 
yourself, you're less than the ground you walk on.  But when you've been 
washed in the blood of Christ's perfect sacrifice you have been made CLEAN and 
holy in the eyes of God and nothing is gonna keep you from God unless you 
recant you're devotion to God and go back into your pre-savedcondition.  BTW, 
as a side note, that's just one of the hot thing that'll get many a Christian 
riled up 'bout 'cause there's the one camp that feels that your eternal 
salvation is absolutly certain no matter what you think about it later and 
there's the other camp that feels that you can forfeit yoursalvation by 
turning your back on God once you've turned to God already.  Now there's 
collary to that saying that if you turn back to God after turning away, He'll 
always take you back.  That's is for certain a truth that no true Christian 
wil argue against since God says in the bible that he'll always* take you back 
no matter how bad you were.  Doesn't matter how evil you were, as long as you 
turn to Him, He'll take you.  I mean, He'd take Hitler had he ever figured out 
what he was doing wrong and turned to Christ Jesus.  To me, as a mortal human 
being, that blows my mind more than a little but hey... that's God for you.  
He's good at blowing your mind with the magnitude of His love for you(and I do 
mean you.  The person sitting behind the keyboard reading this right now.)  
But ah.. I've gotta be going as I'm a time schedule. 

   95May10 11:49 pm from Cal
Did anyone bother to read that? 

   95May11 5:49 am from Jim Bexley Speed
You know, Pet, the real problem wwith you and your kind is that you never seem 
to grasp the simple concept that WE LIKE SINNING. (At least, sinning as you 
view it. Most of what you would call a sin, we call a good time.) WE DON'T 
WANT TO BE SAVED. 
 
  Sure, I know God loves me. But what good is God's love when you have Ed's 
tolerance? 

   95May11 6:54 am from Discobolus
  Did you go through a crisis or something, former HPoM?  I had no idea you 
had gone over.  I've made my views on God apparent plenty of times (it doesn't 
matter if he exists or not) and I know nothing you'll say can change my views, 
and from your sickeningly perky new attitude, I doubt I'll change yours.  
Alas, it has come down to this. 
 
  Please don't preach outside of this room, if you can help it. 

   95May11 1:13 pm from ;
ummm... what the hell was* all of that crap?  sheesh.  jim's right.  sinning 
is cool*.  in fact, one might say it rules*.  besides, if god loved me, he 
wouldn't make me put up with dorks like you. 

   95May11 3:53 pm from Guile
     This rules. 
     
     Mmmmmm...fast. 

   95May11 5:23 pm from Vladimir
 I think that was a joke. 
 just because someone changes religion doesn't mean they start typing with an 
accent. 
 This reminds me of the stuff kafka was doing... 

   95May11 6:09 pm from Whisper
Give PET credit, they knew they would take all kinds of critism from everybody
that read that, but they posted anyways.  Everyone one of us leads his/her own 
life the way that they are most comfortable.  Pet isn't knocking you for your 
liking to sin, so don't knock pet for liking to preach. 

   95May11 10:15 pm from Kafka
 What stuff I was doing? 
  Actually, my viewpoint was summed up rather well by Rev. Ivan Stang in a bit 
that went something like this: 
   "I learned the hard way that the only aspect of "the Lord" I'd ever begin 
to understand was the part from my own skin inwards.  You can *enjoy* or 
*fear* the rest -- you can fall in love with parts of it, eat other parts of 
it as food, drive around in another chunk of it, etc. -- but to start claiming 
you have It's rulebook is an insult to the Itness of it All, and for that 
matter, most people's intelligence." 
    


   95May12 6:18 pm from ;
well, not most* people's... but maybe a couple of them. 

   95May12 11:02 pm from ziggy stardust
a quick question for everyone who cares.. we use less than 10% of our minds, 
how can anyone in the church busness grasp the whole idea of "god" when "god" 
isSOO powerful? AHHHHH that hurts to think about. 

   95May13 12:57 am from Kafka
  I'll bet.   

   95May13 10:20 am from Vagabond Girl
Ziggy: That was a completely arbitrary figure thought up about 130 years ago 
about the percentage of brain we use. I can't believe it's still being used. 

   95May13 12:49 pm from Liquid Sky
In my opinon people are too stupid to experience god, that's why in the past
religion has not worked for the most part. 

   95May13 1:55 pm from Discobolus
  God's to stupid to experience me. 

   95May13 1:55 pm from Discobolus
  heh.  That was a bad post for me to make a spelling error in. 

   95May13 4:55 pm from ziggy stardust
ok sorry i goofed. 12% 

   95May14 1:48 pm from Jim Bexley Speed
So was that one. 

   95May17 11:54 am from Pet
 Ech.  Kay, I know sinning is fun.  In fact, lotto it is really fun but the 
key to it is that this intermitant, short lived and eventually unsatisfying 
pleasure will* most certainly give way to 'hell' or verbosly, the absence of 
God.  Since all* things it is possible to enjoy stem ultimatly from God, the 
absolute separation from God will also cause the entire cessation of absolutly 
everything that you could consider enjoyable (in whatever perverse way).  The 
only other alternative to these transient and unfulfilling pleasures is to 
become aware of your sinful nature, repent and become a follow of Jesus.  
There is absolutly no other way.  Remember John's cry when he was preaching in 
the wilderness 'Repent and be baptised for the kingdom of the Lord is at 
hand'.  I know that most of you are going to think of me as some far out quack 
(or some other derogatory image) and that's ok with me 'cause if through what 
I'm saying here I can get just one* of you to come to the Lord, I'll be 
ecstatic.  Now I'd love* it if all of you were to repent of your worldly ways 
and become Christians but I certainly don't expect any of you to.  BTW, 'case 
you didn't know, that's why I'm here talkin' to ya'll 'cause you better 
believe that I'm not here just so I can get yelled at and argued with.  I'm 
here because of the overiding love of Christ that has changed my entire life.  
I guess I better tell ya'll that I'll be praying for you just 'cuz I love you. 

   95May17 4:35 pm from Iktome
oh good, that means ya'll call back.   (I've never realized people can type 
with accents.  Is that real? I thought only writers did things like that.)  
 
So, repent and then we will be accepted in to heaven?  Anything else you would 
like to add to that? (just checking)  So, what exactly does repenting consist 
of?  Ok, once we die we go to heaven, then what happens in heaven? 

   95May17 10:00 pm from Spiral Architect
 Or the more important questions, is our few years of life enough to base an 
eternity on?  And if we're all "God"'s creations, then, what is the whole 
point anyways?  I mean, wouldn't "God" know what was going to happen anyways?  
I guess my point is, this whole god nonsense is just way too inconsistent for 
me to even remotely contemplate believing. 

   95May17 12:04 am from Kafka
  For that matter, if everything is God, how is it possible to actually become 
seperated from God?  Doesn't that imply a pretty severe limitation on God's 
part if one puny human will, or simply the misfortune NOT to have followed 
precisely the correct set of steps to go to heaven -- through no fault of 
one's own, mind you -- is all it takes to permanently sever that little chunk 
of the Universe in one's soul from the Almighty...  Hell, isn't that rather a 
bit *less* than Almighty? 
   And for God's own sake, if there is such a being as the supreme Architect 
of the Universe, someone brilliant enough to create spiral galaxies, subtle 
enough to author the laws of Physics, ingenious enough to create infinitely 
complex ecosystems, and with the sense of humor required to come up with 
things like the platypus, kiwi bird, and human beings -- if such an entity 
exists, how the hell did it ever manage to settle on a plan for Salvation so 
lame, convoluted and nonsensical as to send his Son down to Earth some umpteen 
million years after its creation (or 4000, if you go by Bishop whatsisname's 
dating -- at any rate, somewhere around two-thirds to 999,999-millionths of 
the way through its total history)  to cause trouble for some badly run branch 
of the Roman Empire and then get nailed to a stick, in order that those parts 
of the world aware of this travesty of a personal philosophy, and actually 
willing to buy it, might eat Wonder Bread, drink grape juice, and say all the 
right incantations at all the right times, and if they happen to have 
subscribed to the correct damn FRANCHISE, go to Heaven...   I mean, what kind 
of Supreme Being would come UP with this shit?  Are you sure he wasn't 
KIDDING?   
  


   95May18 3:07 pm from Wednesday
 God* i love you, Kafka... 
    well... 

   95May19 11:58 am from Vagabond Girl
 What is hell, then? I wonder. 

   95May19 3:18 pm from ;
dumbass.  it's paranor. 

   95May19 3:42 pm from Astral Wolf
personaly I dont belive in heaven or hell, when i die, i will be reborn, live 
another life, die, be reborn....... i think you get the point, (my veiw is 
based on the wheel of life). I asked my teacher where does one start in 
philosopy, he answered "with a ?", i asked like what, he said "like why am i 
here, i answered him "to fill my spot in the wheel of life" he was surprized 
to get an answer so quickly... 

   95May20 12:37 am from Dominion
They will say that he lovves you, he don't 
 From their bible they're controlled 
 His descent they expect in our life 
 They'll be waiting till they die...... 
 
 
 That there is no truth in God. 

   95May20 1:57 am from ;
are  you sure he was surprised, or might he have just been thinking about what 
a dumbass you were? 

   95May20 2:33 am from Lucifer
  Umm, can we have this room archived? 

   95May20 8:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed
I had a cool tiome at work the other day. Recruiters! 
 
 #1: 
 
 "Hey, do you go to church?" 
 
 "No." 
 
 "Well, I represent the church of somethingorother, and we'd like you to come 
down and see what we're all about." 
 
 "Nothankyouhailsatan." 
 
 #2: 
 
 "Excuse me, would you be interested in joining a church?" 
 
 "No, I have a deep and unrelenting hatred for all of mankind, and 
Christianity would just get in the way." 
 
 #3:  
 
 "Excuse me, have you opened your heart to Jesus?" 
 
 "Not lately." 
 
 "Would like to join us in worship tomorrow morning? 
 
 "Well, I'd like to, but I'm not really into that sort of thing." 
 
 "What might help convince you that the way of God is the right way?" 
 
 "Um.... bring back crucifixion." 
 
 #4: 
 
 "Excuse me, sir, woukld you like to join a church?" 
 
 "No. I already love each and every person on Earth, and if I converted to 
your religion, it would require me to begin hating or fearing at least half of 
them." 

   95May20 10:31 am from Death Reaper
 Yeth!  that ruleth.  i haven't been hassled since i was down on the U's 
campus.  I hate religious fanatcis unless they're Edists or SubGeniuses... 

   95May20 11:40 am from PygmyJello
Exarch, you are* the best. Wanna hang out with me at the bus stop sometime? 
there's this weird Jamaican evangalist who keeps ranting about how God cured 
him of his obsession with going to clubs. 

   95May20 1:36 pm from ALLANON
IT'D BE BETTER IF HE JUST RANTED ABOUT HOW GOD CURED HIM OF OBSESSIOn. 

   95May20 9:36 pm from Vladimir
 Does anyone know a SubGenius WWW site.  I was going to make a home page this 
ssummer and have a kick-ass gif of "Bob" that looks like it would make a 
perfect link. 

   95May21 12:36 am from Death Reaper
 Umm, I've got several in my .bookmark with my Unix account.  If you gimme 
your mail address, I'll just mail you my entire bookmark which has a "few" 
SubG sites. 

   95May21 11:42 am from Pet
  Yick.  How to start... ... hmm 
 Iktome: [Repent and you go to heaven, is there anything more?] 
   Yep, the entire basis of Christianity is based upon the concept that we 
cannot be saved through our works.  Not having a Bible nearby, I can't give 
you the exact book, chapter and verse (or the exact* words) but oh well.  "For 
all men have sinned and come short of the glory of God"  Since we all come 
short, we all need that divine help that comes through Jesus to carry us 
home.  "There is no other name given under heaven by which you may be saved" 
(in context, refering to Jesus) pretty much lays it down that only by 
believing in Jesus are you able to achieve salvation.  That's the 'anything 
more?' part. 
 
 [What is repenting?]  Repenting as a means of obedience to God is the act of 
stopping your ungodly activities and thoughts and replacing them with the 
coressponding godly activities and thoughts.  Basicly, it means 'be good.' 
 
 [What happens in heaven?] I very little clue as to what will go on in 
heaven.  What I do* know is that giving glory to God(praise, worship... et 
all) will be guiding all that we do.  I think it'll be kinda like a lifestyle 
praise deal where everybody will be worshipping God somehow, in all that they 
do. 

   95May21 11:51 am from Pet
 Yick.  I didn't mean to save that just then. 
 Spiral Architect: [is our limited time here on earth enough to determine our 
eternal fate?]  I think that it would have* to in that if we had unlimited 
time to choose, we'd already be in an eternity and being infinite, it couldn't 
cease and it would be impossible to goto heaven or hell.  I think it also 
follows that no matter how much time we are given you would always be able to 
argue that point so I think that there's no real way you can say that we don't 
have enough or too much time.  (ever try and divide infinity by a real number?) 
  
  [predestination and choice]  The act of knowing what choice we will make 
doesn't make the choice any less a choice.  If you were to know exactly what I 
would be doing in the next week, it doesn't negate the fact that there was 
active choice involved.  Knowing what spin a particle will turn out to be 
before you measure it doesn't make the determination of it's spin any less a 
random event. Knowledge does not predicate predestination. 

   95May21 11:56 am from Pet
 Kafka: Everything is not* God.  God is a distinct being and your 
anthroplogical argue doesn't hold weight against the Bible which clearly 
states (though I can't remember where or in what words) that God is separate 
and distinct from his creation, namely us n' the universe n' the angels n' 
stuff.  So, no, God is not* being separated from himself when someone goes to 
hell.  I have no more lost a part of myself when I torch my notebook than God 
does when a sinner goes to hell.  Yick.  I just ran outta time. 

   95May21 3:12 pm from Iktome
So you don't know if we get anything good?  All that you can say is that we 
will be forced to worship some being for the rest of eternity.  Something like 
slaves?  What kind of proof that this is the supreme being?  Will we get proof 
in heaven that god is the true creator?  Even if he is the creator, why should 
we (after avoiding doing sin, which is what BTW? please be as specific as 
possible) beforced to worship him and follow his path?  "follow the sheperd.  
he is your [enslaver]"   
 
heaven sounds wonderful, according to you.  Would you like to try to convince 
me that it is otherwise? 

   95May21 5:00 pm from Vladimir
  Heaven sounds like it really sucks. 
 DR: grommet@winternet.com 

   95May21 9:00 pm from Spiral Architect
 What if we don't want an afterlife?  When I die, I would like to completely 
and utterly cease to exist.  I don't want to live forever.  I find heaven and 
hell to both be hell. 

   95May21 10:36 pm from Jim Bexley Speed
God is a such a slimy guy. I mean, When I think of god, I think of someone 
wearing a suit similar to Elvis in the Vegas years, but green rather than 
white, with slicked back hair.. In fact, ever seen Dead Alive? Remeber the 
cheesy uncle guy? You put him in a green Elvis pants suit and have him hitting 
on girls all the time, and that's God. 

   95May21 11:54 pm from Liquid Sky
  my belief in one god left when i realized that religion, is just a different
perception of the same thing. 

   95May22 4:37 am from Death Reaper
 That seems awfully familiar, Vlad... we're you posting in alt.fan.ska 
recently? 
 
 (yeah, yeah, topic drift, I know... FUCK YOU) 

   95May22 3:18 pm from Vladimir
 Nope.  I don't read any alt.fans or alt.tv.fans or anything. 

   95May22 9:44 pm from Rouger
 Elvis is God? Cool. 

   95May22 10:04 pm from Dominion
"Christ is a scheme and will ruin your life!" 

   95May23 4:55 pm from Spiral Architect
 but Ed looks nothing like Elvis. 

   95May23 5:15 pm from Iktome
Haven't you heard of Preslytarianism?  ('poligize for any spelling mistakes)
It's gaining popularity in the south.  The west has scientology. The north has 
Sub-Genius. The south has presleytarianism.  America is the home of secular 
humanism, hooray. 

   95May23 7:19 pm from Napalmed Whore
Church of the Creator. 

   95May23 11:17 pm from Kafka
 The NORTH has SubGenius?  Where the hell do you think Dallas and Little Rock 
are?  CONNECTICUT?! 
   
   Pet: Y'see, this is precisely the underlying downfall of monotheism...  
William S. Burroughs has a nifty little essay on the subject, but I'll just 
paraphrase here...  The problem with God being all-powerful & all-knowing is 
that God can therefore NOT be seperated from his creation.  The Bible makes no 
firm statement on the subject, or rather, makes several contradictory ones.  
In one of the Creation stories, God seems to be clearly seperate from 
Creation... Yet, in the Gospel of John "In the beginning was the Word...  all 
things were made through (not BY) him...  In him was life, and the life was 
the light of men."  Here john is actually borrowing from Heraclitian 
philosophy -- the word "Word" here is actually "logos", a Greek word akin to 
the Chinese word "Tao" or "Way" and indicates an ineffable oneness, an 
all-encompassing nature.   The question of God being separate from his 
Creation has been debated since the beginning of the rabbinical tradition, and 
throughout the history of the Christian church -- a group of monks in Ireland 
at one point decided that God was in each of us, and that therefore the way to 
salvation was through meditation, and not by following the Catholic rites & 
rituals -- they called themselves the "Free Spirits."  The Catholic Church, in 
a stunning display of the true meaning of Christianity, had them tortured and 
killed. 
   Anyway, to the point...  So there's one god, all-powerful and all-knowing.  
he can't go anywhere because he already is EVERYWHERE, and it is inconceivable 
to think of a place where he is not.  He can't do anything because the act of 
"doing" implies opposition (another aside:  one philosopher theorized that 
God's first act must have been to remove himself from existence in order to 
make room for the Universe.) -- in fact, it is impossible to conceive of 
anything that God is NOT doing.  To do so imposes limits, and a god with 
limits is just another damn Santa Claus lookalike in sandals.   
   This paradox is sort of avoided by placing god outside the Universe, 
apparently voluntarily relinquishing some control over his Creation (a vast, 
infinitely complex, inconceivable swirling mass of galaxies and black empty 
void) in order to carry out his plan (finding out whether or not a simian race 
composing less than a tenth of a percent of the total biomass of a tiny planet 
flung out in a remote corner of one of the less remarkable galaxies will 
accept a dead political/religious reformer as his Only Begotten Son, or 
something).  But this leaves only more questions -- if God isn't part of this 
Universe, where is he?  Who created wherever that is?  Is God really 
omnipotent, or merely larger than his Creation?  If God is made apparent in 
his creation, I'd say God is probably a commitee, actually...  Maybe a branch 
of the Federal Reserve. 
     
      Speaking of Hell -- Those who have read Revelation X (The Dobbs 
Apocryphon) will be aware of Kyle Griffith's "War In Heaven" and the terror of 
the Theocrats -- demonic intelligences who impersonate God and set up 
micro-heavens in the afterlife, luring unsuspecting religious people into what 
they think is the Heaven foretold in the Bible -- endless worship, prayer, 
hymn-singing, etc...  and never stop to think why they're not ENJOYING 
themselves more.  In reality, this so-called "Heaven" is just a particularly 
insidious form of HELL, in which these vampire intelligences feed off of human 
belief, gradually disintegrating their souls entirely... 
 
      I take back what I said earlier about God being a commitee.  Acutally, 
if God is apparent in his Creation, the logical conclusion is inescapable...  
GOD IS A BUG.  Or possibly a virus, but I'd say a bug.  Looks like ; and I can 
rejoice...  The rest of you are SCREWED... 

   95May23 11:42 pm from ALLANON
DAMMIT, KAFKA.  YOU'RE GOING ABOUT THIS IN A REALLY SILLY WAY.  IF* GOD IS 
INFINITE IN ANY ABILITY, hE IS GOING TO BE SELF CONTRADICTORY.  E.G. IF hE IS 
OMNIPOTENT, HE CAN'T CREATE A ROCK HE CAN'T LIFT.  IF hE IS OMNISCIENT, hE 
CAN'T THINK OF SOMETHING HE CAN'T COMPREHEND.  ETC.  THIS MEANS THAT ANY* 
INFINITE DEITY MUST NECESSARILY BE OUTSIDE OF THE REALM OF LOGIC.  IT HAS TO 
BE POSSIBLE FOR hIM TO VIOLATE RATIONALITY IN ORDER TO EXIST.  THIS MEANS THAT 
ANY PROOF OR ANTI-PROOF IS BASICALLY MOOT BECAUSE hIS EXISTANCE IS ALREADY 
IRRATIONAL, THUS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.   
 
 IF YOUR gOD ISN'T*  INFINITE, YOU ARE STILL SCREWED.  THAT MEANS THAT hE IS 
FINITE IN EVERY WAY.  THUS IT IS POSSIBLE TO EVENTUALLY SURPASS hIM IN 
ABILITY.  "OH lORD, IT'S HARD TO BE HUMBLE... WHEN YOU'RE FINITE IN EVERY 
WA-HAY..." 

   95May24 4:22 pm from Dominion
 Book of the dead, pages bound in human flesh 
 Feasting the beast, from the blood the words were said 
 I am unseen, dreamt the sacred passage aloud 
 Trapped in a dream, of the Coca-Cola Can. 
 Seven lords, of an evil and fatal force 
 Levitate, through the sacred and ancient doors 
 Unbegun, preminating bizarre 
 Swept away, to the castle of Cantar. 
 Seeking the tomb, tried to possess 
 Immortal sleep, visions of death 
 drank of the blood, water of life 
 Splendorous son, show me the sign. 
 YOU ARE DEAD 
 Blanketing fear, unknown to man 
 Demons appear, death they command 
 
 DEAD BY DAWN 
 
 Blasphemate me! 
 
 We are what was, and shall rule again 
 Dead by Dawn, chanting death thee ancient hymn 
 This is not real, I am not the chosen one 
 Trapped in a spell, of the Coca-Cola Can 
 Torted [pain, in the palace of death 
 Recitate, through the passages I dreamt 
 Dead, Dead by dawn 
 Dead, Dead by dawn 

   95May24 7:27 pm from Jim Bexley Speed
What a fucking idiot. 

   95May24 8:14 pm from Vagabond Girl
 "Blasphemate?" 

   95May24 8:45 pm from Iktome
(Kafka, I'm of spiders.  Cities don't actually exist in the south per se, it's 
just a spatial anomoly that makes them seem to be in the south. Kind of that 
one nexus city, if you've heard anything about planescape. (is that it?)) 
 
Why does god need to be allpowerful if he is infinite?  Your confusing the 
issue.  God could exist (be?) everything and flow like water. What control 
need their be either way?  (maybe implies determinism, but could be argued 
either way, so I won't say more)  This sort of destroys God as a singular 
thing.  Although, what kind of God would need this?  Why would you want to be 
seperate from your creations? What fun is being a capitalist? 
 
About that hell, I have another interpretation of biblical hell. But I'll wait 
to see if anyone wants to hear it.  (it's the one relating to star trek, next 
generation, movie) 

   95May24 10:02 pm from Kafka
 I don't want to hear it.   
 
  I might as well answer Iktome's question from the (or "a") Christian 
perspective...  Most Christians, esp. Fundies and Catholics (another example 
of opposites meeting for ya...) would disagree with the idea that God is like 
the Tao, or that God is is a part of the Universe.  God needs to be a seperate 
entity, for several reasons -- First of all, if God is in everything, like the 
Tao or "The Force" or whatever, there's no point in praying to him...  God 
becomes a passive force, not the active All-Father and Divine Hangin' Judge 
he's supposed to be.  Second, this would allow *anybody* access to God, with 
no intermediary, contradicting Jesus' alleged statement that he was "The Way, 
the Truth and the Light" and that Salvation only comes through accepting Jesus 
SPECIFICALLY.  See, otherwise there'd be no point in having an organized 
religion.  And, this brings us to the more political points, ferexample that 
the original Powers-That-Be of the Early Church, the people who decided what 
was going to go into the New Testament and waht was going to get chucked out, 
wanted to make sure that it was perfectly clear that only through THEIR 
church, and nobody else's, could Salvation be possible.  That's why the Gospel 
of Thomas, and particularly the Gnostic Gospel suddenly became VERY hard to 
find -- it certainly had nothing to do with dedication to the Truth -- the New 
Testament DOES include some obvious forgeries and a few outright lies... 
    Another useless aside -- The Biblical prophets often spoke, not as 
individuals making pronouncements, but rather as mouthpieces for God.  You'll 
notice the phrase "Thus sayeth the Lord..." a lot in these pieces.  In fact, 
the prophet himself was supposed to be totally overwhelmed, rendered virtually 
nonexistent by this contact with the deity.  It has always been my 
supposition, and I'm sure there are serious theologians who might back me 
here, that when Jesus made pronouncements such as "I am the Way, the Truth and 
the Light" he was NOT referring to himself, as a person, but rather saying 
that his God was the Way, the Truth and the Light, Hear O Israel, The Lord Thy 
God, The Lord is One, etc, etc...  But the Early (Gentile) Christians, not 
having the benefit of the Hebrew perspective, committed the all-too-human 
fallacy of "sucking the finger instead of going where it points" so to speak 
-- basing a religion around a personality to the utter exclusion of what that 
personality was so desperately trying to express... 

   95May24 10:48 pm from Dominion
I'm an idiot?  Look at the.............. 

   95May24 11:37 pm from Liquid Sky
Yes you are..... I'm currently reading Revelation X, I'll make sure and look
at that particular story. 

   95May25 3:36 am from Pet
 Yikes.  What I need here is someone else who can argue Christianity 'cause I 
just don't have the time to keep up with ya'll. 
  Kay well fer starters... Yes indeed, one of the ideas to be a 'slave' to God 
in that He'd be a 24 hour, 7 day a week even on holidays God.  There'd never 
be a moment where you didn't owe your allegence to God.  Paul in refering to 
himself used the Greek word 'doulos' or (slave || prophet).  Ya see, that 
really acknowledges the fact that God is indeed supreme and the as His 
creation, you really do* owe your allegence to him.  Whether you actually 
pledge your allegence to him is a different issue but regardless or your 
loyalties, you have, do and will always be God's creation and thus brought 
under his authority. 
  I can't prove* that God is supreme anymore than I can prove God exists.  The 
basis of my relationship with God is upon faith that I am indeed dealing with 
an external God and not some obscure section of my brain.  The bible is very 
clear that while it places the Christian doctrine as objective reality, it is 
most certainly based upon faith that 1) God exists, 2) we are God's creation, 
3) that God will communicate with us, 4) that through a personal fault of our 
own, we incur the justice facet of God, and 5) that the Bible is indeed God's 
word for people and that as an external, omnipotent force guided both it's 
conception, transcription and translation.  When(or I should probably say if* 
since I don't think you'll all wake up some day and suddenly decide 
Christianity is right and get right with God) ya'll get to heaven, you will 
have the objective reality staring you in the face and IMHO, you'll have your 
proof of God's existance standing (or whatever) there right smack dab in front 
of you.  At that point, your faith would no longer have to based upon faith 
but it could and would be based upon the incontrovertible objective reality of 
a God that could make himself known to you (see, that sin o' yours prevents 
him from standing here now and doing that 'cause we'd die if he did that.  
You've heard of people dying when they hear something extremely tragic to that 
individual.  This would that sort of thing on a really* grand scale) . 
 
  Sin is defined by Christian doctrine (I don't have a Webster's infront of me 
nor do I want it 'cause I don't want a 'dictionary definition, I want the 
definition as held by the Christian church) as all those things which through 
any way somehow is in contradiction to either God's nature or will. 
  'bout worship et all.  Assuming you become Christian and get to heaven, what 
you need to understand is that worship n' stuff right down here on earth is 
just awesome.  In my subjective experience, I am overwhelmed by a feeling of 
peace, love, joy and can really say that I've never come across any other 
experience which is more positive.  I don't expect to ever find anything to 
surpass it (least while I'm still here on earth) but hey, don't take my* word 
for it, try it yourself.  Just keep in mind that you need to be saved first or 
it ain't worth squat. 
 We are s'posed to worship n' walk in his prescribed ways 'cause he said* to.  
There isn't much more I can say about that.  I mean think about it, (think 
about it reductio ad absurdum if you have to) an infinite, absolutly supreme 
deity could certainly expect it's creations to do it's will.  Now if the 
creatures were given the choice to either do or not do the creator's will, the 
creatures would still have the obligation to do the deity's will.  
Christianity says that the triune God(Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is indeed 
the deity that created us all and to whom we have an obligation to serve. 
 Iktome: Why on earth would I, from my point of view ever want to convice you 
that heaven is something other* than wonderful?  That would not only be in 
direct competition with all the other things I had been writing but it would 
not be possible for me to find a reason simply because my point of view does 
not include any reasons that one might not want to be in heaven except for the 
one* thought that there might indeed be people who really don't want anything 
to do with God but even then* I think they'll change their tune when they're 
faced with hell.  So... I not going to even try. 
 
  If you think of God as 'I am', there is no possible 'yardstick' by which to 
measure God and thus God is infinite.  I don't see why God can be anything 
else but* all-powerful in that as the creator of all that we call reality 
exluding himself (that's a pretty neat trick to create yourself) he is by 
definition all-powerful. 
  "God could exist (be?) everything and flow like water." I'm not sure what 
you're getting at here... 
  As to being separate from your creations, if you were not somehow delineated 
from your creation, there would be no point at which you could say taht you 
stopped and that your creation started making in effect either your creation 
into yourself or by making yourself into your creation both of which are 
equally unacceptable in that the former makes the subordinate the ordinate and 
the latter vise a versa. 

   95May25 4:24 am from Pet
 A rather lengthy response to Kafka...  (yikes, this stuff just goes on and on 
and on...) 
 
  I don't understand how you draw that the conclusion that omnipotence and 
omniscience requires that there be unity between God and creation. 
  As to John, what John is getting at is that all of creation was brought 
about through the agency of Jesus the Christ.  (BTW, no.  Jesus was not an 
essene.  essenic doctrine is incompatible with Jesus' doctrine) Perhaps I 
don't understand the significance of Chinese Tao but the bible does state that 
Jesus is the only* 'way' you're ever gonna see heaven.  As to the "ineffable 
oneness, an all-encompassing nature", I don't a concordance handy so I can't 
check that out.(why does that always seem to the the way with these 
responces.  I either don't know this or can't check that... :P)  The bible is 
rather clear on our separatness from God and I really don't understand where 
you come up with all these ideas.  Whether a group of monks decides they know 
the nature of God is inconsequential in that regardless of their opinions on 
the subject, they still have an objective reality(amazing how it always comes 
back to that.  Hmm...) to deal with.  The bible is also very clear that 
salvation does not* come by meditation, mindfullness, karma, gnosis, actions 
or any of these popularized substitutes but that salvation comes entirely 
through the grace of God and is entirely free of charge, no special knowledge 
or state of mind nessessary. 
  I do realize that the Christian church has done some really* abominable 
things.  But then again, these atrocious acts are in contradiction to biblical 
christianity and simply because a group a guys espoused a differing doctrine 
doesn't make the biblical christianity any less true. 
  Of course God can't go* anywhere since there would have to be something* for 
go to go somewhere else in*.  That should be pretty obvious, especially to 
someone with your reasoning capacity.  In order to 'make room' requires 
(again) that there be some other thing for God to make room in*.  I personally 
do not see the problem with having God exist independantly of creation so all 
this stuff about making room simply cannot work with my world view.  For some 
things, I learn that I may just ever be able to answer some theological 
questions such as... Why does God care so much about us*?  The answer to that 
lies in God's nature as perfect love and our free choice aspect.  Since God 
loves us so much and our choice mechanism allows us to choose either him or 
else and naught but else to equipped with such a device, I find that of all of 
creation the God would try to redeem, it would be the one part uniquely able 
to choose him again. 
  As the ah... enjoyment of hymns n' stuff... It's not the hymn or prayer or 
whateve that gives me such peace but the content.  It works much like a 
protocol in that the hymn would be likened to Zmodem and the actual ideas 
presented in the hymn would be the data being transferred via Zmodem.  Since 
God does* exist, when I pray, there is a two way conversation going on.  I 
talk to God and he talks back.  It's when God talks back that all the peace n' 
joy n' stuff I've talked about is realized.  BTW, I just gotta tell you that 
the most awesome prayer experience I've had was when God put his hand on my 
shoulder and said something like 'Hey, be at peace, it's ok'.  Now that* was 
an experience.  
  (reading your later post, I see why refering to Jesus as like th Tao really 
isn't right)  Like you said, if Jesus was like the Tao, then his claims to be* 
Christ would be invalidated since the 'Cosmic Christ' is not* the real thing.  
Yick.  I'm not making sense anymore. 
  Assuming that the way of salvation put forth by the early church founders, 
assigning conspiratal tones to their actions in affirming certain doctrines 
while denying others would be completely in line is rather silly.  Really.  
They believed that the one doctrine was(and still is) the one true doctrine 
and that those things that contradicted it were nessessarily less than the 
truth and subject to denial.  Did you expect them to extol the virtues of a 
doctrine not in keeping with what they held to be true? 
  Gnosism is not* true no matter how much you want* it to be true.  It's just 
not right and I just don't have the time or the energy right now to explain 
why gnosism really isn't true.  (well... I have some* time).  Jesus proclaimed 
that the truth was for all* mankind and not* for a select few initiates into 
some 'secret brotherhood'.  The 'gospel of Thomas' is anything but a 
'gospel'.  Again, I just don't have the time right now but hey.  Maybe later. 
For now, it's just not scriptural.  Yick.  It's four in the morning and I have 
to get up in about an hour(after going home) yick. 

   95May25 5:43 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Yeah, but can God dance*? 

   95May25 10:21 am from ALLANON
OK, SO DOMINION GETS A RESPONSE, BUT i DON'T?  DAMMIT!  i'M GOING  TO START 
POSTING GWAR AND DEICIDE LYRICS EVERYWHERE. 

   95May25 4:13 pm from Iktome
Kafka, I understand that they would disagree, that's not my point, I want 
people to think.  So the only proper argument (not arguement from tradition) 
is the way is through him.  Unfortuantly, I don't know the book where this is 
from.  But metaphoricly the meaning could be to find jesus within you.  This 
allows everyone to be in contact with god and god is a part of everyone. God 
can direct actions when in touch with it, but you can ignore god this way. 
(free will)  When jesus says 'up there' read 'in here' it's the only valid way 
since there is nothing special about 'up there' anymore.  I'm not trying to 
argue christianity, I'm looking for truth, which may be under the dogma of 
christianity.  Anyhow, these belief was common of the early christians (before 
the words became to hard and literal?) and of St. Fransis of Assisi and other 
christian mystics. 
 
Why would you want to be a slave to god?  Nice guy, he gives you the option: 
be my slave or suffer eternal punishment.  Regardless of what heaven is, 
(merge with god?) hell I shall now interpete.  (sorry, pet, said everyone 
would choose other then hell) 
 Ok, God created satan (right name?). He said something like serve me and hold 
none above me.  Satan had 12 pairs of wings, much more then the rest of the 
angels, he was the closest to god and loved god very much.  God created humans 
and told the angels to serve them as well.  Satan did not wish to be seperated 
from god.  Satan did not see that humans were a creation (and part) of god. He 
refused to be parted from god out of his [selfish] love for god.  God sent him 
to hell to hope that he learns his lesson.  (this gives god better motives 
then normally thought, like giving humans the will to choose and punishing 
them for their choice, but that's a differect story)  Satan sits in hell and 
thinks that god is mad because he wouldn't help the humans. So, in hell, he 
gives them everything they wanted in their life on earth.  This is not the 
leason he should learn.  Yet for the humans sent to hell (to learn their own 
lessons about material possesions) have a good time, except that they are 
seperated from god (worse then any thing).  So an example of hell is the nexus 
for star trek generations.  (and not that bad a place, unless you comparing it 
to being with god) 

   95May25 4:58 pm from Vladimir
 So if you go to heaven, you're a slave...  If you go to Hell, You get 
whatever you want? 

   95May25 7:28 pm from Pet
  Jesus says in John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one 
comes to the Father except through me."  I think that pretty much establishes 
his claim to be the [only](by the wording it's implied and I think if I 
actually had a Greek text, I'd find that more clearly defined but since I'm 
purdy poor...) way to God.  Now, you most certainly are not* to search for 
Jesus within yourself.   John 8:56-58 reads (Jesus speaking)"Your father 
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad. 
(Jews respond) 'You are not yet fifty years old,' the jews said to him, 'and 
you have seen Abraham!' (Jesus responds) 'I tell you the truth,' Jesus 
answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'  These two passages define Jesus as 
both God and the [one] way to reach God. 
 
 Um.. I gotta go 

   95May25 11:21 pm from Dominion
Jbs is a rockstar. 

   95May26 12:40 am from Pet
 Kay, so God is God and Jesus is God and as per Genesis 1:27 "So Godcreated 
man ..." we're most certainly not God or a part of God or able to become God.  
The created being is unable to ascend to the level of it's creator hence we 
cannot 'become' God(or Gods).  The cosmic Christ is not* valid in that Jesus 
claimed (somewhere in the gospels) "I am the Christ", not 'The Christ is in 
me' or I have been enlightened with the gnosis into the realization of my (and 
your Christhood).  Jesus [the man] said he was(and still is) the Christ, not 
that he was some sort of receptacle for the popularized cosmic Christ that is 
so obviously in contradiction to the scriptures.   
  No, you are obviously not* arguing Christianity so don't even pretend* that 
you're doing that.  The bible says that a man cannot serve two masters and in 
a related passage declares that if you haven't been washed in the blood of 
Christ, then your master is indeed Satan.  I'd be surprized if even one of you 
didn't take issue with that so I'll qualify it for you.  As long as you are 
not glorifying God, you're valuing something* higher than God and since the 
whole sin thing originated in an angel's self-love and then man's desire to be 
like God.  There really isn't any other way if you put some thought to it.  
Actions benefiting yourself are an expression of self-love, actions done for 
the sake of others benefit neglect the character of God and are also a sin 
while actions done for the sake of God who as 'ultimate' good and as the 
arbiter of good and evil will be nature benefit yourself, your 'neighbor' and 
the one God.  So anyway... 

   95May27 1:09 pm from Kafka
   Sure, "no man can serve two masters."  But what if what you're following 
really *isn't* God?  What if Jesus has been misquoted by well-intentioned 
people who only *thought* they understood, and downright diabolical 
individuals with their own personal/political/psychological ends at heart?  
What if Satan stepped in to help with the "proofreading" before Christ's body 
was even off the cross?  I mean, just ferexample, the Twelve Apostles actually 
*met* Jesus.  They knew him, heard his words first-hand, spent every minute of 
their lives after being recruited by him actually bathing in the glory of the 
Son of Man...  Of these twelve,  Thomas doubted his resurrection, Peter, the 
one who was supposed to be "the rock upon which the Church will be founded" 
actually denied knowing him fearing for his life (absurd!  who, knowing 
Salvation PERSONALLY, could fear for his life?)  and Judas actually SOLD HIM 
OUT.  Now if these, Jesus' inner circle, were so unsure, uncertain, and frail 
as to completely screw up in the very PRESENCE of Christ, how can the 
gospellers, letter-writers, letter-forgers, and various editors, translators, 
monarchs and revolutionaries involved in writing the New Testament have 
captured anything even CLOSE to the truth?   
     Again, I'm forced to paraphrase Burroughs -- in the Middle Ages, anybody 
living near the sea KNEW the world was round.  They'd seen ships coming over 
the Horizon sail-first for generations, the curve of the earth plainly visible 
to the naked eye.  They BELIEVED the world was flat because the church TOLD 
them to.  And THAT may very well be the foundation of religion -- getting you 
to ignore what you can SEE, plainly, just by using the faculties God GAVE you, 
so that you can BELIEVE whatever they tell you to. 
      Dammit, God wouldn't create ALL THIS, in such marvelous complexity, just 
to have it all boil down to a silly little handful of pages in an obscure 
rulebook with a *very* questionable history... 

   95May27 7:24 pm from Inigo
 
What a Message!!! GOD!!! DAMM!!!!!!! 
 


   95May28 12:17 am from Pet
   "But what if what you're following really *isn't* God?" Well, if what I'm 
following isn't God, all of this will have been entirely pointless and I will 
have wasted my life in pursuit of a dream.  I'll be the first in line to 
acknowledge that but ya' see, the proof denies faith and since I'm supposed to 
have faith in God, I cannot have objective proof that I can hold in my hand 
and say 'Here is my proof'.   
   "What if Jesus has been misquoted by well-intentioned people who only 
*thought* they understood, and downright diabolical individuals with their own 
personal/political/psychological ends at heart?" Again, if Jesus were no more 
than some visionary who just happened to have some neat insights, my  faith 
would be in vain but whether it is true or not, all the Christians I* know are 
the nicest, most caring people around and if being a Christian  were no more 
than being an abnormally nice person, the world would still be a better place. 
  "What if Satan stepped in to help with the "proofreading" before Christ's 
body was even off the cross?"  That supposes the truth of the Christian ethic 
and   as such cannot even be a valid question in that the Biblical view is than
it is 'inspired' by God meaning that it is indeed* accurate even through
translations which while not being literally 'word for word' are literal
'meaning for meaning' which would* preserve the message intended through
translations. 
  Anyway, we are all human and as such are certainly limited in our
capabilities.  Jesus said 'I will go away that the comforter might come'
(that's pretty close) which indicates that none of Christ's followers had the 
indwelling Holy Spirit and as such were that much more likely to screw up.  
Only until Jesus had died and ressurected were any people empowered by the 
Holy Spirit. (see Acts 2) 
  Anyway, now that true believers who have been baptised in the Holy Ghost     
are given strength and wisdom to deal with all the issues that come up against 
them.  As far as translation goes, I don't think that the Hebrew/Aramaic and 
Greek translations to English lose more than some subtleties (sp) which with 
the aid of a concordance or in the cas of the  'Amplified Bible' can be 
brought to light.  The Amplified bible is an English translation of the 
original greek/hebrew/aramaic texts which instead of just choosing a single 
way of stating a verse, includes all the conotations and  alternative 
translations.  You don't* have the same 'noise' in that translation.  I don't 
have an Amplified but I assure you that if I had any money to spend, I'd get 
my grubby lil hands on a copy. 



   95May28 8:01 am from Mocha
 Pet, will you please stop saying that you are representing Christianity? You 
are not. You are representing your views. Not all Christian religions hold the 
views that you are so adamantly clinging to. You may be talking baout 
Christianity, but you are representing your religion. Are you Catholic? 
 
 I have some questions for you. Are you a virgin? If not, are you married? 
Have you ever had premarital sex? Have you ever smoked? Taken a drink other 
than communion wine? Have you ever had unpure thoughts? Dreamt aout a woman? 
Dreamt about a man? Had a wet dream? Sworn? Taken the Lord's name in vain? 
Lusted after a woman who was already invovled with someone else? Cursed at 
your parents? Been angry with your parents? Yelled at them disrespectively? 
Stolen anything? Used birth control? Done drugs?  
 
 These are all things that are considered "Sins" by hardcore Christians. Some 
of those sins can never be repented for, unless you were to devote your life 
to God like MOther Teresa.  If all things that God made are good, then how do 
you account for people like Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, or other serial 
killers?  God made Satan. How do you account for that? Are you admiting then, 
that God makes mistakes? If that is true, doesn't that make him no better than 
any human? Couldn't we admittedly say that every sin we commit is a "mistake", 
and since God makes mistakes when he makes evil people, then we are all God? 
 
 


   95May28 8:01 am from Mocha
 heh...I just remembered something someone told me once. Credit this one to 
Vange. 
 
 God is love. 
 Love is blind. 
 Ray Charles is blind. 
 Ray Charles is God. 

   95May28 10:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Man, that Pet.. arguing like a true Christian. Ducking the question like it 
was  contagious. 

   95May28 1:06 pm from Guile
That's because he can't actually answer the question without denying his 
faith. Didn't he just spend the last two pages outlining that for you? 

   95May28 4:44 pm from Vladimir
 I don't know about the rest of you... But I really AM god.  
  I sent Pet here to  teach you my ways... 
   You are all my creations, all of you. (well, except maybe dan, but he 
doesn't count because he's cooler than me) 
    All sinners shall pay in the end. 

   95May28 5:35 pm from Liquid Sky
Pet- Christianity is the most pointless crock of shit ever in existance. If you
really* want to learn about it, read about the millions killed by Christians.
That* will tell you what Christianity is all about. 

   95May28 6:44 pm from Python
I'm not straight, which makes me a perverted deviant to most Christians. 
  Yup, gotta love 'em. 

   95May28 7:43 pm from Iktome
Oh, the wonderful christians.  They are so nice.  Yep, those bosnians.  Yep, 
the ones that shoot doctors in the back are nice as well.  The ones so full of 
hate that are filling up the extreme right of politics.  Gee, facist are nice 
people.  Or should we talk about the past, like pope Innocent the II, who 
declared a crusade on the king of france, and all of the troubadors.   The 
rest of the god fearing christians in the crusade.  But lets go back to the 
preists, no, that would be to easy. 
 
Your only arguement, that I'm not going to let my 3 year old cousin kick your 
ass in, is faith.  But tell me, Why does God want you to not question?  I 
mean, isn't faith just disbelieving all other proof, because of this logic 
from tradition (which is invalid, BTW)?  Wouldn't questioning God be better?  
When you find the answers that prove God couldn't you stop having to rely on 
such irrational reasons?  Why would God give you the able to change if you 
never tried to improve or develop?  Why would God want you to be ignorant?  
(unless for better drones in heaven)  Why don't you go ask questions like this?
 

   95May28 9:25 pm from Spiral Architect
 Something that has been confusing me for quite some time is Jesus dying on 
the cross.  Reportedly, he died after less than a day, while it was normal for 
anyone else being crucified to take several days to die, as long as a week 
even.  This leads me to suspect that he most likely did not* die on the 
cross.  With enough Roman officials who dissagreed with the whole charade, I 
find it quite possible that they could have pronounced him prematurely dead, 
drugged him to make him appear dead, etc.  This would allow them to turn him 
loose, under the condition that he dissapear from public, under penalty of 
death.  (I know this might not be making that* much sense, but I'm tired and 
've got a headache, so I'll just answer any questions 'bout my little theory 
here) 

   95May29 4:42 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Well, having iron spikes punched through your arms and legs, as well as a 
gaping puncture in your abdomen, might make it go by a little quicker. 
Especially since everyone else who was crucified was simply tied* to their 
cross. Personally, I have to agree with the Romans on this one. Who wants 
Christ around any longer than you have to? 

   95May29 12:52 pm from Spiral Architect
 There was a gaping puncture in his abdomen?  I wasn't aware of that.  I've 
never cared enough to research this theory, so I most likely am missing some 
of the details.  I doubt that holes in his hands would be much of a factor, 
but the feet possibly.  Remember though, that Pilot, the guy in charge of the 
operation, was against it.   

   95May29 2:31 pm from Vagabond Girl
 Yeah, they stabbed him in his side and apparently *water* came out or 
something. 

   95May29 5:20 pm from Iktome
Jesus was inbred!  He had very thin blood.  God practices rape and incest 
(genocide, racism, sexism, slavery, and the list goes on...).  If the 
christians would just admit it I'm sure they'd get alot more followers. 

   95May29 9:10 pm from Kafka
   Y'know, the argument always comes down to this pathetic little impasse -- 
what Christianity values above all is *faith*, and faith can't be argued, 
debated, is neither supported nor swayed by the facts, and is generally such 
an end in and of itself that theological debate becomes pointless. 
   Which is, of course, the most dangerous part of the whole damn thing.  
We've got this safety circuit built into our heads, for our own survival, for 
those occasions when our brains are overcome by the paradoxes and puzzles of 
existence,  when we can't seem to find the answers, when the Big Questions 
come knockin' at the door...  "Shut down", it whispers.  "Don't think about 
it.  It's all very simple, really...  Just have faith..."  All we have to do 
is pretend that the vast, cold emptiness of space is just little dots on a big 
sheet in the sky, that our little, fragile, flawed shells are just temporary 
repositories for our eternal souls. 
   And that's FINE.  We couldn't survive without it.  Maybe there's even a 
grain of truth in it, somewhere.  But that's only a part of our brains, a 
subprocess designed to support the whole...  What worries me, and what must be 
guarded against, is the temptation to make that the *only* part.  That's when 
things like Crusades and Holocausts and Right-To-Life serial killers start 
popping up.  Not that I think anyone here is in danger of going that 
berzerk...  The fact that Pet still calls despite the fact that it's been made 
clear he's not going to win a lot of converts here at least proves he's got 
enough of an open mind not to just hang up on us and go snuggle up with his 
own kind on Eternal City or wherever... 
    


   95May29 9:46 pm from Dominion
I was told that it took nine days for Jesus to die.  And because of the 
position he was in, the build up of lactose in his muscles and joints..Caused 
his internal organs to come out from his mouth, and with the romans throwing 
stuff at him i/e rocks, sticks, ect.  it tore up his skin covering his body 
forcing all of his insides to fall out.  Yummy.... 

   95May30 1:22 pm from Guile
     I assume you were told all this bby your hardcore satanist buddies? 

   95May30 2:13 pm from Iktome
Fine, enough of this faith stuff then.  I was hoping pet would call again 
before I have to break him, but let's introduce him to the latest post-modern 
(existentialist) question-- WHY?   Faith like yes or no questions, why 
precludes yes or no answers.  But also for a twist, lets not let it be in the 
bible, lets make the little sheep, i mean pet (appropriate name change?)  
think a little bit on his own.  Loosen him up (so I can whip him?). 
 
Tell me pet, I'll do one at a time to make it easier,  Why did god create man? 

   95May30 5:55 pm from Vladimir
I heard they cancelled Easter for '96 because some scientists or something 
found the body. 

   95May30 7:18 pm from Mocha
 Dominion: how could Christ have died in 9 days if Easter is only a few days 
after Good Frieday? We have to ssume that the "holidays" sort of coincide with 
the time frame from long ago. Plus, a build up of lactose would *never ever 
cause your internal organs to come out of your mouth. Use your brain, man. 
Jesus. Do you even know what lactose *does? 

   95May30 8:46 pm from Dominion
Mocha: If you read it right, I said I was told. That isn't necessarily what I 
think, though.  IF I was there, I would've cut Jesus's throat as soon as they 
erected him on the cross. 

   95May30 10:49 pm from Liquid Sky
You never* question a true Satanist. 
 
 Hmm....maybe I'll wait until Pet responds. 

   95May30 11:26 pm from PygmyJello
Heh. I* erected Jesus on the cross. Oh boy* did I erect him. That jesus, hung 
like a fucking donkey. 

   95May30 11:27 pm from PygmyJello
That's what the H. is for in Jesus H. Christ. H-U-N-G! 

   95May31 9:15 am from Spiral Architect
 Dominion, If I was going to execute someone, I'd make sure they died as 
slowly and painfully as possible.  Gut wounds are an excellent method.  Just 
stick a blade into their abdomen just far enough to cut the small intestine.  
They'll scream for hours before they die. 

   95May31 12:30 pm from Jim Bexley Speed
Well, SA, you have to realize that four six-penny nails aren't going to hold a 
body elevated on a cross for very long. They were most likely very large nails 
in order to support the weight, or more correctly spikes. If you punch a large 
hole in each hand, it's going to bleed enough that you'll most likely die in 
several hours. Add to that the holes in the feet and the side wound, and that 
pretty much sums it up. 

   95May31 8:47 pm from Spiral Architect
 On a warm day, with the spikes still in there, the holes in the hands should 
clot fairly well.  The feet will be a little worse, but shouldn't be bleeding 
excessively.  However, without reliable information on the weather, size of 
spikes, severness of side wound, etc, an accurate analysis of the crucifiction 
can not be made.   
 I do admit, that my theory is unlikely at best. 

   95May31 9:07 pm from Mocha
 Dominion: whether or not you were told that doesn't matter. You still posted 
it, and now it is connected with you and your thoughts. Tough break.  Oh, and 
why, pray tell, would you have "slit Jesus' fuckin' throat?' Hmmm? Is it 
because you're all cool and dark and evil? 

   95May31 from Wednesday
 Actually, the nails on all depictions of christ go through the hands, but 
that really wouldn't have supported his weight.  Most (all?) crucifixtions 
<sp> were done with the nails/spikes/whatever through the wrists. 

   95Jun01 12:36 am from PygmyJello
Yeah, I'd assume that with the way the bones in the hands are arranged, that 
no matter where in the hand you put the spike, it would just rip through the 
skin between the bones (seeing that there aren't really any horizontal (or 
whatever) bones).  

   95Jun01 6:47 am from Dominion
I dunno, just for the fuck of doin' it 

   95Jun01 7:27 am from Jim Bexley Speed
No, most crucfixions were done with rope. But the Romans had such a great 
sense of humor, they decided "Let's nail* this fucker fopr real*!" I mean, 
think about it: they stcuk the crown of thorns on him, and put the legend 
"Jesus, King of the Jews" (when they they knew damn well he wasn't) on the 
cross. The romans were really Edists in disguise. 

   95Jun01 7:29 am from Jim Bexley Speed
You know, in Roman culture, homosexual sex wasn't considered bad, unless you 
were the reciever, in which case it was somewhat humiliating. Wouldn't it have 
been really* funny if one clever Legionary thought, "Hey, let's really* 
humiliate this one..." 

   95Jun01 10:26 am from ALLANON
DAMMIT, JIM.  YOU    YOU KNOW, THE CRUCIFIXION WASN'T THE MOST* PAINFUL WAY 
JESUS COULD HAVE DIED.  i BET THERE ARE A LOT OF MUCH MORE SUCKY THINGS THAT 
COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO HIM.  I MEAN, COMPARED TO A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT 
CHRISTIANS DID TO 'WITCHES' IT WAS PRETTY MILD. 

   95Jun01 3:09 pm from Iktome
crucifixion is rather one of the worst ways to go during that era, especially 
with a belly wound.  They only crucified the worst of criminals.  
Unfortuantly, they didn't get his 'loyal' followers as well. 

   95Jun01 4:31 pm from Vladimir
 If I could be there when Jesus was crusified, I wouldn't slit his throat, I'd 
probably try to take out all the spikes except his right wrist.  and cut a 
lock of his hair to show to some Bible thumper. 

   95Jun02 8:30 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Yeah, just leave him hanging by one nail, so we could spin 'im 'round like the 
Wheel of Fortune. 
 
 "I'd like to solve the puzzle. Is it 'INRI?'" 

   95Jun02 4:10 pm from Vagabond Girl
 Yeah, apparently a friend of mine went to Spain (where she thought she had 
lived a former life, but that's just her being weird) and saw the torture 
devices. She's into SM pretty deep, too, and she nearly vomited. This is 
coming from a woman who likes to set her lovers on fire and cut them. 

   95Jun02 4:27 pm from Iktome
What?  I've gone to some of those torture chambers, they are kind of kool.  
They did have some interesting ideas but they weren't above the level I could 
handle (fantisize about).  They wouldn't let me take pictures though.  I've 
gotten away from physical lately, it is rather simplistic.  'course religious 
fanatics aren't known for thinking or being creative. 

   95Jun02 5:00 pm from Mocha
 I love the theory behind the water test: If she floats, she's a witch so 
we'll burn her. If she sinks and drowns, she wasn't a witch...but she's dead 
already. Damn. 

   95Jun02 from Wednesday
 Well, sometimes with the witch trials, they tortured members of the suspected 
witch's family to get a confession.  

   95Jun03 12:28 am from Grass Weaver
Typical of them. 

   95Jun03 8:24 am from Mocha
 I bet they were all hippies.  

   95Jun03 12:59 pm from Python
Goddamn longhairs. 
  Well, Pet appears to have fleed.  How tragic. 

   95Jun03 from Wednesday
 or even fled... 

   95Jun03 3:08 pm from Kafka
   Speaking of crucifixion, have you ever heard about how some of the Saints & 
Apostles were martyred?  It's like after the "nail" innovation with Christ, 
the Romans just went nuts...  St. Anthony was crucified on a big "X", 
apparently just to be different.  One individual, I forget who, was crucified 
UPSIDE-DOWN.  That's gotta be unpleasant. 
   Of course, even before Christ, the members of the Spartacus-led slave 
rebellion were crucified by the thousands along the road to Rome.  They must 
have looked like telephone poles...  Yep, those Romans were wacky guys, 
alright. 

   95Jun04 2:08 pm from Pet
 It was Peter (crucified upside down).  I s'pose I could respond to all the 
accumulated messages but... I just can't bring myself to care enough to do 
it.  'specially since I'd have to go an' find my reply ( 'ts sitting round 
here someplace).  Anyway, now that school is getting out, I won't be able to 
call anymore... See... my home computer's keyboard jack broke off n' I'm too 
lazy to actually try n' fix it or something.  So anyway... That's the last 
you'll see of me here.  BTW, 'case you're curious, (which you probably aren't 
but I don't really care) I also realized I wasn't 'practicing what I was 
preaching' in that the biblicly prescribed method for going 'bout something 
like this is 1- figure out what you're s'posed to be doing.  2- study like 
your life depended on it (it might sometime)  3- do an apprenticship thingy 
(fer practicle experience) and 4- go out n' do it.  I never got past the study 
bit.  I just went out n' did it n' oh well...  

   95Jun04 3:53 pm from Spiral Architect
 Sounds similar to the preachers in front of Northrup.  They have no 
objective, but instead just go out and  preach about sin and how we're all 
going to hell because we know some things that they don't. 

   95Jun04 9:33 pm from Death Reaper
  WE can tell* you never got past the studying bit, because your logic is 
flawed and full of holes.   
 There's a fine line between faith and blindness.  Actually, they're almost 
the same; except that you don't have to have faith to be blind. 

   95Jun04 10:33 pm from Kafka
  Well, Pet, go haul that log out of your eye, & we'll see if you're any more 
persuasive when you come back...  Oh, and don't let the preachers get you 
alone in a room, no matter how much ice cream they promise you... 

   95Jun05 1:08 am from Grass Weaver
Is there actually any real discussion on this wasteland or is it simply here 
for a few 'leet anal retentives (sp?) to slam people with origional thoughts 
and ideas? 

   95Jun05 3:56 am from ALLANON
WHY DON'T YOU JUST PUT THE "(SP?)" AT THE END* OF YOUR POST?  THAT WAY  IT'D 
CATCH ALL* OF YOUR ERRORs. 

   95Jun05 2:59 pm from Iktome
that's a good idea ALLANON. 
 
Pet probably saw that 'why question' and he realized the bullshit he'd been 
preaching.  You can see the fevor has gone out of him in that last post.  To 
late Pet you can never be stupid again, so don't try and regain that faith. 

   95Jun05 5:14 pm from Guile
     Grass Weaver, I hope you're not calling Christianity an original idea... 

   95Jun05 5:38 pm from Supernaut
 Though, I do believe some of the early christians saw natural occurances, and 
attributed them to "God's wrath."  Actually, that's fairly common to many 
early societies.  Sexually transmitted diseases to punish those having 
extramarital sex.  It's no supprise that incest is forbidden in virtually 
every culture on the planet.  After 3000 years of scientific discoveries, I 
think that we should be able to think for ourselves and not do things out of 
fear of some imaginary god's wrath. 

   95Jun05 5:53 pm from Supernaut
 Hmmm, that needs a re-write, but you get the point. 

   95Jun05 10:26 pm from Liquid Sky
That's funny he never responded, for me at least. 

   95Jun06 5:22 pm from Iktome
You never asked a question.  I changed his religious ass.  He should call back 
and prove me wrong then I won't go into the deprogramming field.  (and so I 
could study someone truly...stupid?...dense?...FAITHFUL.) 

   95Jun06 11:43 pm from Kafka
  Supernaut: The early Christians were Greeks, educated in the cradle of 
Western civilization.  They didn't need to make up superstitious nonsense 
about "God's wrath."  They could simply have looked to Aristotle or Plato -- 
who would have explained calmly and logically that it was all a result of 
soul-loss through sneezing, or an excess of yellow bile... 

   95Jun06 12:00 am from Kafka
  Unfortunately, I don't think he's going to chamge.  I suspect he was merely 
heavily intimidated by the mass of rampant unbelief, heresy, blasphemy, 
sadism, and misinterpreted Biblical quotations on the board.  I doubt it was 
your "why" question that pushed him over the edge, Iktome.  If CS Lewis could 
write several million pages on the subject, I don't think Pet would have had 
*that* much difficulty coming up with one or two paragraphs...  After all, 
half the point of religion is to simplify all such questions to a single 
answer: "God willed it.  Who are we to question?" 
   I suspect he might just throw himself even deeper into the devilishly 
seductive logic of religious fanaticism, actually becoming the sort of hideous 
zombie who has stuffed their brain so full of chapter-and-verse rote 
memorization that all capacity for critical thinking is lost.  He might start 
practicing the fine art of handing out pamphlets at bus stops just to get in 
shape in case he ever comes back.  Or he might do just what I earlier 
complimented him on *not* doing, and spend all of his online time at Eternal 
City (Reverse psychology, I guess) 
    And of course, then again, sometime soon he may experience a strange and 
terrible visitation in the night, "Bob", or possibly even "Ed", may explain 
"The Deal" to him in his sleep, and he may become one of the mighty armies of 
Truth, Justice, and the American way (only more dark and hateful, natch.)  
Sure, he'd still be a basically lobotomized dogma-spouter, a drooling dupe 
suitable only for soliciting donations at Amtrak stations, but he'd be one of 
OURS... 

   95Jun07 12:14 am from Liquid Sky
 Iktome looks for responses to his* posts, and is reluctant to read mine. When 
you say "half the point of religion..." do you mean all religions or just this 
one? 

   95Jun07 5:54 pm from Iktome
actually I read reverse to see what you said but I couldn't find anything.  
That was the reason why I said you never asked a question, being that you 
hadn't.  And the reason why no one answered your question, being that you 
never asked one. 
 
Thanks Kafka, I'd rather not glorify myself into believing it was that easy.  
Unlike the one I got those ideas from (and question). 
 
Did anyone know pet before?  We could probably predict where he'll end up.  
(most of the religious fanatics must lose their inteligence other ways, 
because I've pressed them for bible quotes and they generally fail.  Ministers 
and preists however are hard to get something else out of.  Except those 
secular protestant ones common to the suburbs, but I digress) 

   95Jun09 from Satan's helper
And then God said let there be women, so man has someone to Fuck!.............
How bout we talk about someone cool, like satan. I mean how the hell did he 
get such a bad rep. All he done is get some bimbo(Eve) to eat a damn apple. 
Why is that so mortally wrong? Pussy! 

   95Jun09 4:06 pm from Alan B'stard
So Jesus robbed the cradle? 

   95Jun09 8:20 pm from Iktome
the devil didn't do that I don't think.  THat was just some snake. 
 
Jesus is a bastard and god is a rapist.  (a beam of light entered her in her 
sleep... (or something like that)) 
 
Jesus only fucked that one hooker most likely. 

   95Jun09 8:20 pm from Iktome
I mean who would do some wacko who kept telling you he was god....    (heehee) 

   95Jun10 1:45 am from Kafka
   But let's leave my ex-girlfriend out of it... 
  Actually, the premise of The Gnostic Gospel is apparently that Magdalene 
*did* know Jesus in the Biblical sense...  I've never read the whole thing, 
but it's the only "Gospel" in which Jesus is treated as a HUMAN BEING.  Which 
is, of course, why it's sacreligious. 
    Oh, and LS, I meant all religions, some more than others.  Answering the 
vast and unanswerable is one of the basic psychological impulses which calls 
"religious" thought into being...  Although one need not turn to an organized 
or recognized religion to fill that need.  Television works fine for most 
people, it seems. 

   95Jun10 7:05 pm from Supernaut
 Or a dead cat, but I digress.  If memory serves me correctly, (since the 
books I'd like to check this in are currently burried under the mound of my 
possesions brought home from collage) Early christians (through about 1600 or 
so) were of a rather Aristotlean mind-set.  In the late fourteen hundreads, 
though, this shifted to more of a Platonic mind-set.  (this was primarily 
noticeable in their scientific methods and philosophy)  (It's also possible 
that I have this entirely backwards) but if anyone cares, I'll give a little 
more detail about this once I dig out my HSci books. 

   95Jun12 9:49 pm from Kafka
   You probably have it backwards...  Although the difference between Plato 
and Aristotle is basically the difference between a lot of opinionated, 
misinformed nonsense masquerading as rational thought and a lot of 
opinionated, misinformed nonsense masquerading as logical, rational thought.  
I don't think there was much of a "switch", to speak of.  Most of the medieval 
Christian "philosophers" -- Aquinas & his ilk -- were equally aware of both 
Plato and Aristotle.   
   Talking about Medieval Chirstian science is a contradiction in terms, 
though...  these are the guys who ordered the Libraries of Alexandria and 
Constantinople burned to the ground and made Archimedes a banned author and 
geometry a capital crime. 
   And I should point out that "Early" Christianity generally refers to the 
pre-medieval period -- the first 3-400 years of Christianity after Paul's 
name-change but before the Roman Catholic church became a political entity...  
(Probably best placed at the time of the conversion of Emperor Constantine, 
although heresies, antipopes and fringe groups continued to abound through the 
Middle Ages).   

   95Jun19 1:11 pm from Guile


                 O N L Y    O N E    S A V I O U R 

                                By Tony Warren 

     There is anger in the voice of many unbelievers. But their anger is 
  not directed so much at christians, as it is at God. They most often 
  say things like, If there is a God, why do children die, or why is 
  there wars, or suffering. Their thinking is that God should stop it. 
  What they don't "REALIZE" is that they are trying to make a God of 
  their own, designed after what they think is best for him to do. 
  God is not "SUBJECT" to man, man is subject to God. God doesn't have 
  to answer to Man, Man has to answer to GOD. Questions like, why did 
  God put me here if He's going to send me to HELL, this is the 
  rebellion in the heart of man against God, which is what is really 
  "SENDING" him to Hell. God is the creator of Heaven and earth, Holy. 
  True, and Trustworty. It is "UTTERLY" foolish for Man to question 
  Him like a suspect of some kind. That's like a criminal saying to a 
  "RIGHTEOUS" judge, 'Sure I killed someone, but that's what I like to 
  do. I don't deserve to be punished.' Shall the righteous Judge set him 
  free? NO WAY! Not until the punishment has been paid. It's not God 
  who is unrighteous in His judgements, it is man. Who is man to reply 
  against God that He has done something wrong. 
   The word of God declares, 
      Romans 9:20 
          "Nay but O MAN, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall 
           the thing formed say to HIM that formed it, why hast thou 
           made me thus?" 

  The answer is "NOBODY!" and until we get that through our "THICK" 
  skulls we have no chance of escaping the judgement. Salvation begins 
  at that point. It's the realization that you can do nothing but throw 
  yourself upon the Mercies of God, the Judge. And He will have 
  compasion on you, He will abundantly "PARDON" you through the Blood of 
  His dear Son, His Gift to us (who don't deserve it). You don't ask for 
  it, You don't "GET" it. You're to proud to beg, The Lord Resisteth the 
  proud. You get down on your Knees (HUMBLE YOURSELF) and say, Lord 
  Forgive me, a Miserable rotten sinner, and the Lord will answer your 
  prayers. 
    But just as the lord is Merciful, He is also a God of Wrath. If you 
  don't believe it, you just pick up the Old testament and start 
  reading. I've got news for you! That's the "SAME" God, and He "WILL" 
  Judge the unrighteous. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

    This Idea that God will save everyone is foolish and Crazy and 
  comes out of man's desire to "MAKE GOD" in the image man would like 
  Him to be. You see man "LIKES" his sin, but he wants to go to heaven 
  also, so he makes this God who will allow him to do both. All he has 
  to do is say, "I'm a Christian." But you see, that type of Church is 
  not the true church, and that type of christian is not a true 
  christian. God says, 
          " He that says he knows me and KEEPETH not My word is a LIAR 
            and the truth is not in him." 
    STRONG STUFF! 
  That's what GOD says. Now who are you going to listen to? The Church, 
  The Pastor, Yourself, or GOD? Your church can't save you. And neither 
  can these other religions that people find so exotic or new and 
  different. Religion doesn't save us. We don't worship a religion. We 
  worship GOD. I judge no man/Woman, I leave that up to God. My faith is 
  not in the Corporate Church, but in the Invisible church, which is the 
  Group called "TRUE" Believers. There "MAY" be many religions with 
  some True believers in it, I don't know. There "MAY" be some believers 
  in the catholic church, or the masionic Church, etc., because although 
  your corporate church may have it wrong, it's possible you "MIGHT" 
  still trust in Jesus as your saviour even though you sin in remaining 
  in a unfaitful congregation. It's not my Job as a christian to judge 
  other people on if they are saved or not. On the Other hand, My God 
  has said there is Only "ONE WAY" to salvation. SIN, must be punished. 
  And the penalty of sin is Death. Since we all sin, No one will escape, 
  for GOD the Judge, is not Unjust like man the judge. Justice "MUST" be 
  served. The Penalty must be paid. There is no Probation. There is no 
  time off for good behaviour. There is no suspended sentence. A Holy 
  GOD Demands that Justice "MUST" be served. The Penalty must be payed. 

     Ony One GOD answers the question of How can this punishment of 
  death, that justice demands, be paid. No Other God, religion, 
  philosopghy, answers the "SIN QUESTION." Only one offers a "WAY" A 
  substitute. A God/Man who if we knock, will come unto us and take upon 
  Himself Our Sins, leaving us clean in the eyes of God. Laden with Our

   95Jun19 1:12 pm from Guile
  sins, He would willingly go and die, that we might escape death. No 
  mere man could do it. It Would take a "GODMAN". God, because no mortal 
  man could go to the cross with the sins of the world and die and be 
  raised again. Man, because man sinned, man had to be the one to pay. 
  "ONLY" a GODMAN could do it. In The History of the world, there is 
  only "ONE" recorded GODMAN. The Lord Jesus Christ. Also known as The 
  Way, The Truth and The "LIFE". Without our sins being paid for by 
  Christ, they must be paid for by US! ...One "WAY" or the Other 
      So, when anyone asks, what's the difference between the Christian 
  faith (Not Religion) and "ALL" of the others, The Clear answer is that 
  it is the only one that truly answers the SIN question. It is the only 
  faith where the REQUIRED Death, for sin, is paid for. Without which, 
  No one can be saved. That is why Our Lord Clearly stated, There is "NO 
  OTHER NAME" by which men can be saved. Without the Penalty of death 
  being paid, no one can be saved. And without a GODMAN paying it for 
  us, we can't be saved. And there is Only been one GODNAN. The Lord 
  Jesus Christ. No one will have an excuse come judgement day. not 
  Athiests, not agnostics, nor snake Oil salesmen. For God knows the 
  heart. He made it. He knows He put there a inner knowledge of Himself 
  in their minds and in Creation. 
      Once again. It's a matter of Belief. I believe that. All True 
  Christians Believe that. That's what faith is. Many unbelievers say 
  they are sick and tired of religions saying they are the only true 
  religions. That Claim has to be examined in light of scripture and 
  considered. Sin has to be paid for and someone has to do it. Only 
  Christ can! End of debate about religions. They all come up lacking 
  Compared to Christ's. 
      I'm distressed to hear religions decieving people into thinking 
  if they worship a cow they'll be happy in the hereafter. Or if they 
  kill many people in the battlefild, they'll please god/Ali whatever, 
  and be in glory. I'm mournful seeing people worship statues, smoke 
  hallucinaginic leaves, talking to supposed spirits, drinking blood, 
  etc. All in the name of some God that will bring them happiness when 
  they die. Do I judge these people? No, That's God's job. My Job is to 
  spread the gospel of Truth that they would at least hear the word. 
  Tell them what the Lord God says. If they will hear, well, if not, 
  It's all in God's hands. The Worst and the best I can tell them is 
  what God says. There is no other name whereby men may be saved. I 
  don't condemn them, I witness in truth that maybe they may hear. 
  If not, God is in control. He knows those who are His Lost sheep and 
  who are not. If I am persecuted and reviled for doing this, so be it. 
  I'll count it a Blessing of the Lord. The Time for Salvation is "NOW" 
  Make your calling and Election "SURE" 
         "Lift up your heads, Redemption draweth Nigh!" 

                       Peace, 
                         Tony 

     InterNet:  tony.warren.seekers.com

   95Jun19 4:05 pm from Demosthenes
Sorry, that was WAY to fuckin' long.... 

   95Jun19 11:52 pm from Dot
I agree, I can't cencentrate that long... 

   95Jun20 12:44 am from Liquid Sky
I didn't read any of it. 

   95Jun20 1:13 am from Guile
    Neither did I. What the fuck did it say? 

   95Jun20 2:45 am from Alan B'stard
Too little payoff for such a big buildup. 

   95Jun20 11:19 am from Vagabond Girl
 He sure used a lot of "CAPITAL" letters and "QUOTES"! 

   95Jun20 11:19 pm from Odey
   Does anybody think that Jesus Christ could have been a big cult? 

   95Jun20 11:38 pm from Mina
I have often times thought that that might be true... 

   95Jun21 12:33 am from Iktome
cult- def. a religious group without political power. 
 They were a cult once, and on their way to it again. 

   95Jun21 from Wednesday
 Hmm. i got stuff at church about cults. It was rather ironic. 

   95Jun21 3:04 am from Alan B'stard
Were they for it or against it? 

   95Jun21 6:46 pm from Scorpion
I have not gone to church in about ten years because all they do is make you 
give them money.  I am sorry but I don't think I need that to practice my 
beliefs.  The last time I went to church was when my family did not have any 
money to give the church because we had hardley enough money to buy me or my 
brother shoes.  The pastor got really mad at my dad because he did not donate 
anything.  I don't need a pastor to tell me what I believe. 

   95Jun21 8:24 pm from Guile
     I think if you really read this area, you wouldn't be "sorry", nor would 
you bother posting something so long. It's far more biting to be concise. 

   95Jun21 from **VEGA**
"god is Dead" I forgot where that came from... 

   95Jun21 9:34 pm from Dot
I've been to church like two times in my whole life. I don't feel like I've 
missed anything. I don't think that church is for me...for some yes, but me, 
no. 

   95Jun21 11:09 pm from Guile
     Why did you say that? 
 
     "God is dead" 
           -Nietzche <pardon spelling>
 
 
     wow. I suck. 

   95Jun22 12:13 am from Briareos
If we're making god-related quotes, here's a conversation that Einstein and 
Bohr had about quantum theory(specifically the Heisenberg Uncertainty 
Principle): 
 
 "I'm sorry Neils, I got believe God plays dice with the Universe!" 
     -Al 
 "Oh Albert, stop telling God what he can and can't do." 
     -Neils 

   95Jun22 11:00 am from Mocha
 "Nietzsche is dead." 
       -God 

   95Jun22 12:31 pm from Guile
     I was praying that wouldn't appear. 

   95Jun22 12:48 pm from Scorpion
I think you got that from a NIN song Vega. 

   95Jun22 4:49 pm from aaron the anarchist
 no, that would be your god is dead. 

   95Jun22 7:36 pm from Scorpion
sorry. 

   95Jun22 8:52 pm from Dot
Hey Scorp...am I your God! 

   95Jun22 9:33 pm from Mocha
 Guile: I knew you would be. :) 

   95Jun22 10:00 pm from Scorpion
You are everything. 

   95Jun22 11:22 pm from Guile
     You draw this conclusion from the fact that you are nothing, I assume? 
 
     Mocha: ;P, smiley-fucker. 

   95Jun23 9:05 pm from Alan B'stard
 Nietzsche is pietzsche. 

   95Jun24 7:03 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Nietzsche was a putzsche. 

   95Jun24 from Red Wolf
It looks like we've finally got a love connection on the Death Cookie! dot & 
Scorpmyster. 

   95Jun24 9:16 pm from Iktome
you're confused, it's dot and iktome. and scorpion and iktome. and everyone 
and iktome.  yeah. 

   95Jun24 from Red Wolf
Uh, I'm not an everyone, am I? 

   95Jun24 10:51 pm from Dot
Scorpmyster? Don't you mean Score myster? Why you think we having a love 
connection? I don't even know the bastard. 

   95Jun25 1:30 am from Auntie Sluggo
  RW is maybe takin the board banter a bit literal-like. 

   95Jun26 3:43 am from Kafka
  Y'see, it's this ability to seperate "fantasy" from "reality" that 
characterizes the more advanced members of the animal kingdom... 

   95Jun26 12:20 pm from Dot
I went to St. Thomas today....it was likse a big religious festival... 

   95Jun26 5:41 pm from lynne
 Umm, are you sure about that? 

   95Jun26 8:56 pm from Dot
Yes, it warn't the people working there, it was the people on the tour with 
me! That was all they asked about! AAAGGHHH! 

   95Jun27 2:16 am from Auntie Sluggo
  I'm entering the U. of Kansas this fall (anyone who tells a Dorothy joke 
gets it!!   >8-[  ) and they have like 4 Baptist organizations on that damn 
campus. Along with a bunch of other sect groups. Why can't the majority have 
been the Lutherans or something, some church that doesnt try to convert 
everybody by force? I've been rehearsing for it in my head: "Look, I'm a queer 
pagan Jew, you don't *want me *there!!!..." Prolly won't work. I know when I 
just say I'm Jewish, they get this increased-excitement gleam in their eyes, 
like you're a prize fish they want to hook and bring back. And Assemblies of 
God people, I know for sure from experience, will start saying that you can be 
Jewish and still accept Jesus as your savior, and then they want to get all 
technical on your ass. Like hearing scriptural specifics is gonna make me 
*more excited about a religion. 

   95Jun27 7:31 am from Jim Bexley Speed
My dog is the same breed as Toto. You can borrow him and run around campus 
shouting, "I don't think we're in... oh. Nevermind." Then skip away softly 
singing "Ding Dong! The witch is dead, which old witch, the wicked..." 

   95Jun27 7:34 am from Jim Bexley Speed
When the Baptists come around and bug you, hack up an old A. Whitney Brown 
quote and say, "Baptists? Oh, you're the ones who hold people under water 
until they come around to your way of thinking. Sorry, I'd drown first." 

   95Jun27 9:57 am from Mocha
 A. Whitney Brown is *so cool. 

   95Jun27 11:28 am from Auntie Sluggo
  Shit, that's a really good idea... 

   95Jun28 5:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Of course it is. It's mine*. 

   95Jun30 10:54 am from Auntie Sluggo
  Great, and you've killed the conversation, too... 
  I've got to be careful though, getting into religious arguments (I've always 
been too ready to do that), because it's gotten so that I'm not even 
monotheistic anymore. That's not something I want any religious hardliner to 
use against me in an argument. 

   95Jul01 from Red Wolf
Don't worry, I don't even know what the hell that means. 

   95Jul01 from Steph..
I once had a boyfriend that was athiest.. at least he claimed to be.. but i 
knew he really wasn't.. he just thought he would try and be cool. 

   95Jul01 5:51 pm from Guile
     I think everyone should try to be "cool". Not cool, but "cool". 

   95Jul01 from Steph..
I don't, a world full of cool people would be a world full of dickheads. 

   95Jul02 2:08 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Then you go around sucking everyone* off! 

   95Jul02 5:04 am from Discobolus
  I'm glad to know that Steph wont stoop to being cool.  It's nice that people 
suck. 

   95Jul02 8:45 am from Death Reaper
We're through being cool. 

   95Jul02 from Steph..
Well uh thanks.. I feel that I don't have to be cool tolive on this earth. 

   95Jul02 5:35 pm from Guile
     You don't have to live on this earth, either. 

   95Jul02 6:57 pm from Briareos
In fact, you don't have to live. 

   95Jul02 from Steph..
 Oh go pack yourselves you fuckin nerds 

   95Jul02 11:09 pm from Briareos
Hey.., I.. think.. steph.. is.. trying.. to.. make.. us.. feel.. bad...  
Please.. don't.. do.. that.. steph...  It.. isn't.. very.. nice.., and.. 
doesn't.. really.. fit.. with.. the.. theme.. of.. this.. board... 

   95Jul02 11:10 pm from Briareos
Hey Dan, can write a steph.. filter that will do that to every word?  Please? 

   95Jul03 1:38 am from Guile
     Please, don't. Then we'd get "Steph...." whenever we wrote "Steph..". And 
that wouldn't be right at *all. 

   95Jul03 10:09 am from Deb
We could just global replace Steph.... with Steph.. before saving.  Or Dan 
could twit her. 

   95Jul03 from Steph..
You guys.. gotta.. calm.. down.. see.. I.. can.. do.. it.., too.. hahah i was 
just playing and you guys all acted so serious.. you knwo all I want is to see 
my name in every little post.. and thats what I got so my task is done.  Well 
back to omaha I go people.. seeya on the 16th!~  AHAHAHAH 

   95Jul03 1:29 pm from Discobolus
  What, your 16th birthday? 

   95Jul03 2:28 pm from Guile
     Aw, geez, you're coming *back? 

   95Jul04 12:39 pm from lynne
 She always comes back. Just be thankful you don't have to stay with her. :P 

   95Jul04 5:12 pm from Alan B'stard
Why? Does she squeeze the toothpaste from the top of the tube? 

   95Jul06 12:44 pm from Liquid Sky
That's not the only tube she squeezes. 

   95Jul21 7:18 pm from MONTE CARLO
  I would like to use my tube soon 

   95Jul21 10:30 pm from Xaroth
 I was a tube once.  No, really!  Noone squeezed me, though. 

   95Jul24 8:12 pm from Auntie Sluggo
  I have this great old French hardcore album by a band called Trotskids. 
About the only coherent line on the thing is "Mon sexe est une tube de 
mayonnaise." Now, who can say it in Spanish? 

   95Jul25 12:52 am from Xaroth
  I could if I knew the words for tube and mayonnaise... 

   95Jul27 5:11 am from Jim Bexley Speed
I could do it in Latin if I knew what "Mon sexe" meant. 

   95Jul27 12:16 pm from Auntie Sluggo
  You doofus. Hey everybody, Jim's a doofus. 
  Doofus!  Doofus!! 

   95Jul28 7:11 am from Jim Bexley Speed
No, I just don't know French, dippy. I mean, I think* I know what it means, 
going for the painfully obvious, but 

   95Jul28 7:15 am from Jim Bexley Speed
(ahem) ... "My sex is a tube of mayonnaise" doesn't make sense either 
logically or grammtically. Now, if that's right, and it's not supposed* to 
make sense, then it was a dumb thing to post in the first place, and you're no 
better than Steph... However, if the obvious is wrong, than you were stupid to 
just assume we'd know what it meant, which means you're definitely worse* than 
Steph... 

   95Jul28 7:52 am from Guile
     Wow. I'd figured you were gonna get it eventually, but you *still haven't. 
  
     I don't even know the one non-English language I've attempted to learn 
very well, and I got it. And that language was German. 

   95Jul28 10:47 pm from Twist
Speaking of German, isn't Bauhaus that collaboration between Pearl Jam and 
Neil Young? 

   95Jul29 4:53 am from goth chick
i think you were the product of that collaboration, Twist. 

   95Jul29 7:19 am from Auntie Sluggo
  Jim, in English for a long time people used to say "sex" instead of penis or 
vagina, and I guess in French you can do the same thing. Make sense now? 

   95Jul29 7:23 am from Guile
     Actually, I believe it generally refers to the vagina, in French. 

   95Jul29 5:30 pm from Iktome
My sex is a many headed beast. 

   95Jul29 7:32 pm from Pet
 Um... I just thought I'd tell ya'll I've been resuced from my delusion and am 
not Christian.  I really don't want to get into why but hey, it doesn't make 
any difference so... :P  Hummdee dum.   

   95Jul30 12:13 am from ALLANON
OK, LET'S GET A SHOW OF HANDS.  DID ANYONE REALLY CARe? 

   95Jul30 1:08 am from Briareos
I didn't care*, but I'm glad to see that Pet's happier now. 

   95Jul30 1:28 am from Iktome
happier?  he said 'hummdee dum'  that sounds like a vacuum of everything, 
which inclues happiness you know. 

   95Jul30 5:10 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Well, in what small backwater country did they do that? 

   95Jul30 11:35 am from Auntie Sluggo
  The vacuum thing? Brainerd. 

   95Jul30 6:23 pm from Ceredwyn
My vacuum doesn't pick up much of anything, especially not sock lint. 

   95Aug01 12:17 am from Xaroth
  Vacuums suck. 

   95Aug01 1:53 am from goth chick
so does Primus. 
 hee-hee. 

   95Aug01 3:04 pm from Ceredwyn
So do mesquitoes and babies with bottles. 

   95Aug01 4:13 pm from goth chick
....and Edina chicks, too. 

   95Aug01 11:06 pm from Auntie Sluggo
  ...and mostly-grown people with plastic jelly-like pacifiers around their 
necks. 

   95Aug01 11:32 pm from Briareos
...and this line of conversation. 

   95Aug02 2:33 am from goth chick
......and Briareos. 

   95Aug02 2:10 pm from Briareos
Dammit, quit.  I don't mind being ripped on, but this room just sucks now. 

   95Aug02 7:11 pm from ALLANON
...AND BRIAREOs. 

   95Aug02 10:23 pm from Death Reaper
 ...and Briareos. 

   95Aug02 11:07 pm from Auntie Sluggo
  Bri, Bri, Bri is high and dry, dry, dry. 

   95Aug03 12:14 am from Twist
I* am dry... and all itchy-like... 

   95Aug03 1:28 am from Briareos
This is way* too easy.  You're all too easily provoked. 

   95Aug03 6:07 am from Death Reaper
 ...and bRIAREOS. 

   95Aug03 4:44 pm from goth chick
(hey, that was my* line, DR) 
  ...AnD briareoS 

   95Aug04 12:15 am from Guile
   ...und auch Briarios. 

   95Aug04 1:04 am from Auntie Sluggo
  ...And a partridge in a... 

   95Aug05 3:45 am from Death Reaper
 ...bRiArEoS. 

   95Aug05 12:52 pm from Auntie Sluggo
  yEAH. 

   95Sep01 from Steph..
I love god and he loves me. 

   95Sep02 1:36 am from AfraidOfYourTreedom
Is he good? 

   95Sep02 3:25 am from Death Reaper
 Great! 

   95Sep02 10:08 am from hypochrismutreefuzz
 he gives good godhead 

   95Sep02 12:36 pm from Alan B'stard
The god I* don't believe in is a loving and just god! 

   95Sep05 9:52 pm from SaTAN
I love Ed and Ed loves me, or so I *think.. 

   95Sep06 7:49 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Ed loves no one. 
 
 I finally get it. all of Ed's teachings now make sense, And I I know what I 
have to do. As of 3:41 am today, I have, in the name of Ed, seceded from your 
speces and formed my own. I am now genus Homo, species Melior. And I will now 
proceed to do to the human race what should be done... experiments*. You are 
all worthless monkeys. 

   95Sep07 4:39 am from Death Reaper
Seig heil! 

   95Sep07 7:08 am from Jim Bexley Speed
You too, DR. Sorry... 

   95Sep07 12:29 pm from Vagabond Girl
Laugh while you can, monkey boy. 

   95Sep07 4:05 pm from Vladimir
I visited the 8th and a half dimension once. 

   95Sep07 8:42 pm from aaron the anarchist
 i am the 9th. 

   95Sep07 10:52 pm from ALLANON
i'm making that a banner on my computer.  it'll say that every time i boot 
up.  "seig heil!"  "you too, DR.  sorry..."  that totally rules.  i think the 
world is all going to end.  at least for some of us.   
 
 oh well.  i know you realize that i'm not human, jim, but somehow i don't 
think being a worm is going to get me much farther. 

   95Sep08 7:48 am from Jim Bexley Speed
Well, no. I win. 

   95Sep09 5:31 am from ALLANON
yeah, that's what i figured.  oh well. 

   95Oct03 11:48 pm from Phil I. Buster
Hewwo? Anyone here? 

   95Oct04 8:52 pm from aaron the anarchist
 no. 

   95Oct05 2:10 am from Phil I. Buster
didn't think so.  i'll be going now 

   95Oct05 3:48 pm from Vladimir
Thank God. 

   95Oct05 10:03 pm from Knara
God has nothing to do with it.*ssh* He's resting. 

   95Oct06 1:05 pm from Eclipse
 No he's not, I killed him. 

   95Oct07 8:53 am from Alan B'stard
God backwards is dog. 

   95Oct08 1:18 am from Guile
     So's your mother. 

   95Oct08 10:58 am from ALLANON
no, god backwards is ed's dickwarmer when he feels like slumming. 

   95Oct09 10:03 am from Uptown Sinclair
 And how is the rest of your life going, eh AL? 

   95Oct09 5:19 pm from ALLANON
heh. 



Back