95May07 6:02 pm from Danarchy Religious debate! 95May07 10:48 pm from ; ummm... god sucks. 95May07 11:12 pm from rage There is no God. 95May08 11:09 am from tbob There is me, there is you, there is God; right in there behind your eyes. God is the vernacular for the essence of universe. 95May08 1:46 pm from Vagabond Girl God. Doesn't neccessarily connotate a gender, but people still feel the need to put "dess" on the end of it. Are we just weird, stupid, or insane? Or is it the English language's fault? 95May08 3:36 pm from Discobolus I like the english language, dammit. 95May08 4:20 pm from ; i think we're all spaztically femminist. we should spell god 'gyd'. 95May08 6:01 pm from Briareos Pronounced, "Gid"? Vag, that's only natural, to want to add -dess to the end of God. 95May09 12:39 am from Wired Gidess? Something like giddiness, only more pointless? 95May09 3:25 pm from ; no you fool, it'd be "giddess" not "gidess". sheesh. 95May09 5:43 pm from Discobolus Well, this is getting stupid. 95May09 9:34 pm from Vagabond Girl I am Doctress Fruitopia! :) 95May10 11:28 am from Danarchy HPoM should come back. :) 95May10 11:34 pm from Pet Anyway, ya'll know me as the High Priest of Moo and ever since my new found faith in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior, I've been arguing with several users fer bit now. Proly tomally I'll repost the last bit o' discussion so I don't have start in a vacuum and maybe get a serious thang going 'gain like I had before. Anyway, if ya'll didn't know it before, since February I've been a born-again Christian and can now count myself among all those Bible-thumpin' Christians who don't care what you think of them but just want you to eventually realize your inescaple sin and turn to Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. This has been a complete 180 for me as far as values and belief systems go so... If you thought you had an idea where I was coming from before... ya'll can know* where I'm coming from by just a'pickin' up yourself a copy of the Bible and start a'readin' the New Testament. BTW, just for the record, I'm not doing all this for my health ya gotta understand. I'm giving glory to God my Savior by going out and talkin' to ya'll 'bout Christianity n' stuff. N' know what? I guessI can really say that I honestly love ya'll even though I know* that some of you proly don't want to hear this stuff from me 'cause deep down, you know* it's the truth and the truth hurts. Believe me, before I could really* become a Christian, I had to realize that I really was less than dirt in the eyes of God(yes, God does* indeed exist. I talk to Him daily.) and as such really had no chance of ever doing anything good except* through Jesus Christ. See that's really the key to the whole thing. By yourself, you're less than the ground you walk on. But when you've been washed in the blood of Christ's perfect sacrifice you have been made CLEAN and holy in the eyes of God and nothing is gonna keep you from God unless you recant you're devotion to God and go back into your pre-savedcondition. BTW, as a side note, that's just one of the hot thing that'll get many a Christian riled up 'bout 'cause there's the one camp that feels that your eternal salvation is absolutly certain no matter what you think about it later and there's the other camp that feels that you can forfeit yoursalvation by turning your back on God once you've turned to God already. Now there's collary to that saying that if you turn back to God after turning away, He'll always take you back. That's is for certain a truth that no true Christian wil argue against since God says in the bible that he'll always* take you back no matter how bad you were. Doesn't matter how evil you were, as long as you turn to Him, He'll take you. I mean, He'd take Hitler had he ever figured out what he was doing wrong and turned to Christ Jesus. To me, as a mortal human being, that blows my mind more than a little but hey... that's God for you. He's good at blowing your mind with the magnitude of His love for you(and I do mean you. The person sitting behind the keyboard reading this right now.) But ah.. I've gotta be going as I'm a time schedule. 95May10 11:49 pm from Cal Did anyone bother to read that? 95May11 5:49 am from Jim Bexley Speed You know, Pet, the real problem wwith you and your kind is that you never seem to grasp the simple concept that WE LIKE SINNING. (At least, sinning as you view it. Most of what you would call a sin, we call a good time.) WE DON'T WANT TO BE SAVED. Sure, I know God loves me. But what good is God's love when you have Ed's tolerance? 95May11 6:54 am from Discobolus Did you go through a crisis or something, former HPoM? I had no idea you had gone over. I've made my views on God apparent plenty of times (it doesn't matter if he exists or not) and I know nothing you'll say can change my views, and from your sickeningly perky new attitude, I doubt I'll change yours. Alas, it has come down to this. Please don't preach outside of this room, if you can help it. 95May11 1:13 pm from ; ummm... what the hell was* all of that crap? sheesh. jim's right. sinning is cool*. in fact, one might say it rules*. besides, if god loved me, he wouldn't make me put up with dorks like you. 95May11 3:53 pm from Guile This rules. Mmmmmm...fast. 95May11 5:23 pm from Vladimir I think that was a joke. just because someone changes religion doesn't mean they start typing with an accent. This reminds me of the stuff kafka was doing... 95May11 6:09 pm from Whisper Give PET credit, they knew they would take all kinds of critism from everybody that read that, but they posted anyways. Everyone one of us leads his/her own life the way that they are most comfortable. Pet isn't knocking you for your liking to sin, so don't knock pet for liking to preach. 95May11 10:15 pm from Kafka What stuff I was doing? Actually, my viewpoint was summed up rather well by Rev. Ivan Stang in a bit that went something like this: "I learned the hard way that the only aspect of "the Lord" I'd ever begin to understand was the part from my own skin inwards. You can *enjoy* or *fear* the rest -- you can fall in love with parts of it, eat other parts of it as food, drive around in another chunk of it, etc. -- but to start claiming you have It's rulebook is an insult to the Itness of it All, and for that matter, most people's intelligence." 95May12 6:18 pm from ; well, not most* people's... but maybe a couple of them. 95May12 11:02 pm from ziggy stardust a quick question for everyone who cares.. we use less than 10% of our minds, how can anyone in the church busness grasp the whole idea of "god" when "god" isSOO powerful? AHHHHH that hurts to think about. 95May13 12:57 am from Kafka I'll bet. 95May13 10:20 am from Vagabond Girl Ziggy: That was a completely arbitrary figure thought up about 130 years ago about the percentage of brain we use. I can't believe it's still being used. 95May13 12:49 pm from Liquid Sky In my opinon people are too stupid to experience god, that's why in the past religion has not worked for the most part. 95May13 1:55 pm from Discobolus God's to stupid to experience me. 95May13 1:55 pm from Discobolus heh. That was a bad post for me to make a spelling error in. 95May13 4:55 pm from ziggy stardust ok sorry i goofed. 12% 95May14 1:48 pm from Jim Bexley Speed So was that one. 95May17 11:54 am from Pet Ech. Kay, I know sinning is fun. In fact, lotto it is really fun but the key to it is that this intermitant, short lived and eventually unsatisfying pleasure will* most certainly give way to 'hell' or verbosly, the absence of God. Since all* things it is possible to enjoy stem ultimatly from God, the absolute separation from God will also cause the entire cessation of absolutly everything that you could consider enjoyable (in whatever perverse way). The only other alternative to these transient and unfulfilling pleasures is to become aware of your sinful nature, repent and become a follow of Jesus. There is absolutly no other way. Remember John's cry when he was preaching in the wilderness 'Repent and be baptised for the kingdom of the Lord is at hand'. I know that most of you are going to think of me as some far out quack (or some other derogatory image) and that's ok with me 'cause if through what I'm saying here I can get just one* of you to come to the Lord, I'll be ecstatic. Now I'd love* it if all of you were to repent of your worldly ways and become Christians but I certainly don't expect any of you to. BTW, 'case you didn't know, that's why I'm here talkin' to ya'll 'cause you better believe that I'm not here just so I can get yelled at and argued with. I'm here because of the overiding love of Christ that has changed my entire life. I guess I better tell ya'll that I'll be praying for you just 'cuz I love you. 95May17 4:35 pm from Iktome oh good, that means ya'll call back. (I've never realized people can type with accents. Is that real? I thought only writers did things like that.) So, repent and then we will be accepted in to heaven? Anything else you would like to add to that? (just checking) So, what exactly does repenting consist of? Ok, once we die we go to heaven, then what happens in heaven? 95May17 10:00 pm from Spiral Architect Or the more important questions, is our few years of life enough to base an eternity on? And if we're all "God"'s creations, then, what is the whole point anyways? I mean, wouldn't "God" know what was going to happen anyways? I guess my point is, this whole god nonsense is just way too inconsistent for me to even remotely contemplate believing. 95May17 12:04 am from Kafka For that matter, if everything is God, how is it possible to actually become seperated from God? Doesn't that imply a pretty severe limitation on God's part if one puny human will, or simply the misfortune NOT to have followed precisely the correct set of steps to go to heaven -- through no fault of one's own, mind you -- is all it takes to permanently sever that little chunk of the Universe in one's soul from the Almighty... Hell, isn't that rather a bit *less* than Almighty? And for God's own sake, if there is such a being as the supreme Architect of the Universe, someone brilliant enough to create spiral galaxies, subtle enough to author the laws of Physics, ingenious enough to create infinitely complex ecosystems, and with the sense of humor required to come up with things like the platypus, kiwi bird, and human beings -- if such an entity exists, how the hell did it ever manage to settle on a plan for Salvation so lame, convoluted and nonsensical as to send his Son down to Earth some umpteen million years after its creation (or 4000, if you go by Bishop whatsisname's dating -- at any rate, somewhere around two-thirds to 999,999-millionths of the way through its total history) to cause trouble for some badly run branch of the Roman Empire and then get nailed to a stick, in order that those parts of the world aware of this travesty of a personal philosophy, and actually willing to buy it, might eat Wonder Bread, drink grape juice, and say all the right incantations at all the right times, and if they happen to have subscribed to the correct damn FRANCHISE, go to Heaven... I mean, what kind of Supreme Being would come UP with this shit? Are you sure he wasn't KIDDING? 95May18 3:07 pm from Wednesday God* i love you, Kafka... well... 95May19 11:58 am from Vagabond Girl What is hell, then? I wonder. 95May19 3:18 pm from ; dumbass. it's paranor. 95May19 3:42 pm from Astral Wolf personaly I dont belive in heaven or hell, when i die, i will be reborn, live another life, die, be reborn....... i think you get the point, (my veiw is based on the wheel of life). I asked my teacher where does one start in philosopy, he answered "with a ?", i asked like what, he said "like why am i here, i answered him "to fill my spot in the wheel of life" he was surprized to get an answer so quickly... 95May20 12:37 am from Dominion They will say that he lovves you, he don't From their bible they're controlled His descent they expect in our life They'll be waiting till they die...... That there is no truth in God. 95May20 1:57 am from ; are you sure he was surprised, or might he have just been thinking about what a dumbass you were? 95May20 2:33 am from Lucifer Umm, can we have this room archived? 95May20 8:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed I had a cool tiome at work the other day. Recruiters! #1: "Hey, do you go to church?" "No." "Well, I represent the church of somethingorother, and we'd like you to come down and see what we're all about." "Nothankyouhailsatan." #2: "Excuse me, would you be interested in joining a church?" "No, I have a deep and unrelenting hatred for all of mankind, and Christianity would just get in the way." #3: "Excuse me, have you opened your heart to Jesus?" "Not lately." "Would like to join us in worship tomorrow morning? "Well, I'd like to, but I'm not really into that sort of thing." "What might help convince you that the way of God is the right way?" "Um.... bring back crucifixion." #4: "Excuse me, sir, woukld you like to join a church?" "No. I already love each and every person on Earth, and if I converted to your religion, it would require me to begin hating or fearing at least half of them." 95May20 10:31 am from Death Reaper Yeth! that ruleth. i haven't been hassled since i was down on the U's campus. I hate religious fanatcis unless they're Edists or SubGeniuses... 95May20 11:40 am from PygmyJello Exarch, you are* the best. Wanna hang out with me at the bus stop sometime? there's this weird Jamaican evangalist who keeps ranting about how God cured him of his obsession with going to clubs. 95May20 1:36 pm from ALLANON IT'D BE BETTER IF HE JUST RANTED ABOUT HOW GOD CURED HIM OF OBSESSIOn. 95May20 9:36 pm from Vladimir Does anyone know a SubGenius WWW site. I was going to make a home page this ssummer and have a kick-ass gif of "Bob" that looks like it would make a perfect link. 95May21 12:36 am from Death Reaper Umm, I've got several in my .bookmark with my Unix account. If you gimme your mail address, I'll just mail you my entire bookmark which has a "few" SubG sites. 95May21 11:42 am from Pet Yick. How to start... ... hmm Iktome: [Repent and you go to heaven, is there anything more?] Yep, the entire basis of Christianity is based upon the concept that we cannot be saved through our works. Not having a Bible nearby, I can't give you the exact book, chapter and verse (or the exact* words) but oh well. "For all men have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Since we all come short, we all need that divine help that comes through Jesus to carry us home. "There is no other name given under heaven by which you may be saved" (in context, refering to Jesus) pretty much lays it down that only by believing in Jesus are you able to achieve salvation. That's the 'anything more?' part. [What is repenting?] Repenting as a means of obedience to God is the act of stopping your ungodly activities and thoughts and replacing them with the coressponding godly activities and thoughts. Basicly, it means 'be good.' [What happens in heaven?] I very little clue as to what will go on in heaven. What I do* know is that giving glory to God(praise, worship... et all) will be guiding all that we do. I think it'll be kinda like a lifestyle praise deal where everybody will be worshipping God somehow, in all that they do. 95May21 11:51 am from Pet Yick. I didn't mean to save that just then. Spiral Architect: [is our limited time here on earth enough to determine our eternal fate?] I think that it would have* to in that if we had unlimited time to choose, we'd already be in an eternity and being infinite, it couldn't cease and it would be impossible to goto heaven or hell. I think it also follows that no matter how much time we are given you would always be able to argue that point so I think that there's no real way you can say that we don't have enough or too much time. (ever try and divide infinity by a real number?) [predestination and choice] The act of knowing what choice we will make doesn't make the choice any less a choice. If you were to know exactly what I would be doing in the next week, it doesn't negate the fact that there was active choice involved. Knowing what spin a particle will turn out to be before you measure it doesn't make the determination of it's spin any less a random event. Knowledge does not predicate predestination. 95May21 11:56 am from Pet Kafka: Everything is not* God. God is a distinct being and your anthroplogical argue doesn't hold weight against the Bible which clearly states (though I can't remember where or in what words) that God is separate and distinct from his creation, namely us n' the universe n' the angels n' stuff. So, no, God is not* being separated from himself when someone goes to hell. I have no more lost a part of myself when I torch my notebook than God does when a sinner goes to hell. Yick. I just ran outta time. 95May21 3:12 pm from Iktome So you don't know if we get anything good? All that you can say is that we will be forced to worship some being for the rest of eternity. Something like slaves? What kind of proof that this is the supreme being? Will we get proof in heaven that god is the true creator? Even if he is the creator, why should we (after avoiding doing sin, which is what BTW? please be as specific as possible) beforced to worship him and follow his path? "follow the sheperd. he is your [enslaver]" heaven sounds wonderful, according to you. Would you like to try to convince me that it is otherwise? 95May21 5:00 pm from Vladimir Heaven sounds like it really sucks. DR: email@example.com 95May21 9:00 pm from Spiral Architect What if we don't want an afterlife? When I die, I would like to completely and utterly cease to exist. I don't want to live forever. I find heaven and hell to both be hell. 95May21 10:36 pm from Jim Bexley Speed God is a such a slimy guy. I mean, When I think of god, I think of someone wearing a suit similar to Elvis in the Vegas years, but green rather than white, with slicked back hair.. In fact, ever seen Dead Alive? Remeber the cheesy uncle guy? You put him in a green Elvis pants suit and have him hitting on girls all the time, and that's God. 95May21 11:54 pm from Liquid Sky my belief in one god left when i realized that religion, is just a different perception of the same thing. 95May22 4:37 am from Death Reaper That seems awfully familiar, Vlad... we're you posting in alt.fan.ska recently? (yeah, yeah, topic drift, I know... FUCK YOU) 95May22 3:18 pm from Vladimir Nope. I don't read any alt.fans or alt.tv.fans or anything. 95May22 9:44 pm from Rouger Elvis is God? Cool. 95May22 10:04 pm from Dominion "Christ is a scheme and will ruin your life!" 95May23 4:55 pm from Spiral Architect but Ed looks nothing like Elvis. 95May23 5:15 pm from Iktome Haven't you heard of Preslytarianism? ('poligize for any spelling mistakes) It's gaining popularity in the south. The west has scientology. The north has Sub-Genius. The south has presleytarianism. America is the home of secular humanism, hooray. 95May23 7:19 pm from Napalmed Whore Church of the Creator. 95May23 11:17 pm from Kafka The NORTH has SubGenius? Where the hell do you think Dallas and Little Rock are? CONNECTICUT?! Pet: Y'see, this is precisely the underlying downfall of monotheism... William S. Burroughs has a nifty little essay on the subject, but I'll just paraphrase here... The problem with God being all-powerful & all-knowing is that God can therefore NOT be seperated from his creation. The Bible makes no firm statement on the subject, or rather, makes several contradictory ones. In one of the Creation stories, God seems to be clearly seperate from Creation... Yet, in the Gospel of John "In the beginning was the Word... all things were made through (not BY) him... In him was life, and the life was the light of men." Here john is actually borrowing from Heraclitian philosophy -- the word "Word" here is actually "logos", a Greek word akin to the Chinese word "Tao" or "Way" and indicates an ineffable oneness, an all-encompassing nature. The question of God being separate from his Creation has been debated since the beginning of the rabbinical tradition, and throughout the history of the Christian church -- a group of monks in Ireland at one point decided that God was in each of us, and that therefore the way to salvation was through meditation, and not by following the Catholic rites & rituals -- they called themselves the "Free Spirits." The Catholic Church, in a stunning display of the true meaning of Christianity, had them tortured and killed. Anyway, to the point... So there's one god, all-powerful and all-knowing. he can't go anywhere because he already is EVERYWHERE, and it is inconceivable to think of a place where he is not. He can't do anything because the act of "doing" implies opposition (another aside: one philosopher theorized that God's first act must have been to remove himself from existence in order to make room for the Universe.) -- in fact, it is impossible to conceive of anything that God is NOT doing. To do so imposes limits, and a god with limits is just another damn Santa Claus lookalike in sandals. This paradox is sort of avoided by placing god outside the Universe, apparently voluntarily relinquishing some control over his Creation (a vast, infinitely complex, inconceivable swirling mass of galaxies and black empty void) in order to carry out his plan (finding out whether or not a simian race composing less than a tenth of a percent of the total biomass of a tiny planet flung out in a remote corner of one of the less remarkable galaxies will accept a dead political/religious reformer as his Only Begotten Son, or something). But this leaves only more questions -- if God isn't part of this Universe, where is he? Who created wherever that is? Is God really omnipotent, or merely larger than his Creation? If God is made apparent in his creation, I'd say God is probably a commitee, actually... Maybe a branch of the Federal Reserve. Speaking of Hell -- Those who have read Revelation X (The Dobbs Apocryphon) will be aware of Kyle Griffith's "War In Heaven" and the terror of the Theocrats -- demonic intelligences who impersonate God and set up micro-heavens in the afterlife, luring unsuspecting religious people into what they think is the Heaven foretold in the Bible -- endless worship, prayer, hymn-singing, etc... and never stop to think why they're not ENJOYING themselves more. In reality, this so-called "Heaven" is just a particularly insidious form of HELL, in which these vampire intelligences feed off of human belief, gradually disintegrating their souls entirely... I take back what I said earlier about God being a commitee. Acutally, if God is apparent in his Creation, the logical conclusion is inescapable... GOD IS A BUG. Or possibly a virus, but I'd say a bug. Looks like ; and I can rejoice... The rest of you are SCREWED... 95May23 11:42 pm from ALLANON DAMMIT, KAFKA. YOU'RE GOING ABOUT THIS IN A REALLY SILLY WAY. IF* GOD IS INFINITE IN ANY ABILITY, hE IS GOING TO BE SELF CONTRADICTORY. E.G. IF hE IS OMNIPOTENT, HE CAN'T CREATE A ROCK HE CAN'T LIFT. IF hE IS OMNISCIENT, hE CAN'T THINK OF SOMETHING HE CAN'T COMPREHEND. ETC. THIS MEANS THAT ANY* INFINITE DEITY MUST NECESSARILY BE OUTSIDE OF THE REALM OF LOGIC. IT HAS TO BE POSSIBLE FOR hIM TO VIOLATE RATIONALITY IN ORDER TO EXIST. THIS MEANS THAT ANY PROOF OR ANTI-PROOF IS BASICALLY MOOT BECAUSE hIS EXISTANCE IS ALREADY IRRATIONAL, THUS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. IF YOUR gOD ISN'T* INFINITE, YOU ARE STILL SCREWED. THAT MEANS THAT hE IS FINITE IN EVERY WAY. THUS IT IS POSSIBLE TO EVENTUALLY SURPASS hIM IN ABILITY. "OH lORD, IT'S HARD TO BE HUMBLE... WHEN YOU'RE FINITE IN EVERY WA-HAY..." 95May24 4:22 pm from Dominion Book of the dead, pages bound in human flesh Feasting the beast, from the blood the words were said I am unseen, dreamt the sacred passage aloud Trapped in a dream, of the Coca-Cola Can. Seven lords, of an evil and fatal force Levitate, through the sacred and ancient doors Unbegun, preminating bizarre Swept away, to the castle of Cantar. Seeking the tomb, tried to possess Immortal sleep, visions of death drank of the blood, water of life Splendorous son, show me the sign. YOU ARE DEAD Blanketing fear, unknown to man Demons appear, death they command DEAD BY DAWN Blasphemate me! We are what was, and shall rule again Dead by Dawn, chanting death thee ancient hymn This is not real, I am not the chosen one Trapped in a spell, of the Coca-Cola Can Torted [pain, in the palace of death Recitate, through the passages I dreamt Dead, Dead by dawn Dead, Dead by dawn 95May24 7:27 pm from Jim Bexley Speed What a fucking idiot. 95May24 8:14 pm from Vagabond Girl "Blasphemate?" 95May24 8:45 pm from Iktome (Kafka, I'm of spiders. Cities don't actually exist in the south per se, it's just a spatial anomoly that makes them seem to be in the south. Kind of that one nexus city, if you've heard anything about planescape. (is that it?)) Why does god need to be allpowerful if he is infinite? Your confusing the issue. God could exist (be?) everything and flow like water. What control need their be either way? (maybe implies determinism, but could be argued either way, so I won't say more) This sort of destroys God as a singular thing. Although, what kind of God would need this? Why would you want to be seperate from your creations? What fun is being a capitalist? About that hell, I have another interpretation of biblical hell. But I'll wait to see if anyone wants to hear it. (it's the one relating to star trek, next generation, movie) 95May24 10:02 pm from Kafka I don't want to hear it. I might as well answer Iktome's question from the (or "a") Christian perspective... Most Christians, esp. Fundies and Catholics (another example of opposites meeting for ya...) would disagree with the idea that God is like the Tao, or that God is is a part of the Universe. God needs to be a seperate entity, for several reasons -- First of all, if God is in everything, like the Tao or "The Force" or whatever, there's no point in praying to him... God becomes a passive force, not the active All-Father and Divine Hangin' Judge he's supposed to be. Second, this would allow *anybody* access to God, with no intermediary, contradicting Jesus' alleged statement that he was "The Way, the Truth and the Light" and that Salvation only comes through accepting Jesus SPECIFICALLY. See, otherwise there'd be no point in having an organized religion. And, this brings us to the more political points, ferexample that the original Powers-That-Be of the Early Church, the people who decided what was going to go into the New Testament and waht was going to get chucked out, wanted to make sure that it was perfectly clear that only through THEIR church, and nobody else's, could Salvation be possible. That's why the Gospel of Thomas, and particularly the Gnostic Gospel suddenly became VERY hard to find -- it certainly had nothing to do with dedication to the Truth -- the New Testament DOES include some obvious forgeries and a few outright lies... Another useless aside -- The Biblical prophets often spoke, not as individuals making pronouncements, but rather as mouthpieces for God. You'll notice the phrase "Thus sayeth the Lord..." a lot in these pieces. In fact, the prophet himself was supposed to be totally overwhelmed, rendered virtually nonexistent by this contact with the deity. It has always been my supposition, and I'm sure there are serious theologians who might back me here, that when Jesus made pronouncements such as "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light" he was NOT referring to himself, as a person, but rather saying that his God was the Way, the Truth and the Light, Hear O Israel, The Lord Thy God, The Lord is One, etc, etc... But the Early (Gentile) Christians, not having the benefit of the Hebrew perspective, committed the all-too-human fallacy of "sucking the finger instead of going where it points" so to speak -- basing a religion around a personality to the utter exclusion of what that personality was so desperately trying to express... 95May24 10:48 pm from Dominion I'm an idiot? Look at the.............. 95May24 11:37 pm from Liquid Sky Yes you are..... I'm currently reading Revelation X, I'll make sure and look at that particular story. 95May25 3:36 am from Pet Yikes. What I need here is someone else who can argue Christianity 'cause I just don't have the time to keep up with ya'll. Kay well fer starters... Yes indeed, one of the ideas to be a 'slave' to God in that He'd be a 24 hour, 7 day a week even on holidays God. There'd never be a moment where you didn't owe your allegence to God. Paul in refering to himself used the Greek word 'doulos' or (slave || prophet). Ya see, that really acknowledges the fact that God is indeed supreme and the as His creation, you really do* owe your allegence to him. Whether you actually pledge your allegence to him is a different issue but regardless or your loyalties, you have, do and will always be God's creation and thus brought under his authority. I can't prove* that God is supreme anymore than I can prove God exists. The basis of my relationship with God is upon faith that I am indeed dealing with an external God and not some obscure section of my brain. The bible is very clear that while it places the Christian doctrine as objective reality, it is most certainly based upon faith that 1) God exists, 2) we are God's creation, 3) that God will communicate with us, 4) that through a personal fault of our own, we incur the justice facet of God, and 5) that the Bible is indeed God's word for people and that as an external, omnipotent force guided both it's conception, transcription and translation. When(or I should probably say if* since I don't think you'll all wake up some day and suddenly decide Christianity is right and get right with God) ya'll get to heaven, you will have the objective reality staring you in the face and IMHO, you'll have your proof of God's existance standing (or whatever) there right smack dab in front of you. At that point, your faith would no longer have to based upon faith but it could and would be based upon the incontrovertible objective reality of a God that could make himself known to you (see, that sin o' yours prevents him from standing here now and doing that 'cause we'd die if he did that. You've heard of people dying when they hear something extremely tragic to that individual. This would that sort of thing on a really* grand scale) . Sin is defined by Christian doctrine (I don't have a Webster's infront of me nor do I want it 'cause I don't want a 'dictionary definition, I want the definition as held by the Christian church) as all those things which through any way somehow is in contradiction to either God's nature or will. 'bout worship et all. Assuming you become Christian and get to heaven, what you need to understand is that worship n' stuff right down here on earth is just awesome. In my subjective experience, I am overwhelmed by a feeling of peace, love, joy and can really say that I've never come across any other experience which is more positive. I don't expect to ever find anything to surpass it (least while I'm still here on earth) but hey, don't take my* word for it, try it yourself. Just keep in mind that you need to be saved first or it ain't worth squat. We are s'posed to worship n' walk in his prescribed ways 'cause he said* to. There isn't much more I can say about that. I mean think about it, (think about it reductio ad absurdum if you have to) an infinite, absolutly supreme deity could certainly expect it's creations to do it's will. Now if the creatures were given the choice to either do or not do the creator's will, the creatures would still have the obligation to do the deity's will. Christianity says that the triune God(Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is indeed the deity that created us all and to whom we have an obligation to serve. Iktome: Why on earth would I, from my point of view ever want to convice you that heaven is something other* than wonderful? That would not only be in direct competition with all the other things I had been writing but it would not be possible for me to find a reason simply because my point of view does not include any reasons that one might not want to be in heaven except for the one* thought that there might indeed be people who really don't want anything to do with God but even then* I think they'll change their tune when they're faced with hell. So... I not going to even try. If you think of God as 'I am', there is no possible 'yardstick' by which to measure God and thus God is infinite. I don't see why God can be anything else but* all-powerful in that as the creator of all that we call reality exluding himself (that's a pretty neat trick to create yourself) he is by definition all-powerful. "God could exist (be?) everything and flow like water." I'm not sure what you're getting at here... As to being separate from your creations, if you were not somehow delineated from your creation, there would be no point at which you could say taht you stopped and that your creation started making in effect either your creation into yourself or by making yourself into your creation both of which are equally unacceptable in that the former makes the subordinate the ordinate and the latter vise a versa. 95May25 4:24 am from Pet A rather lengthy response to Kafka... (yikes, this stuff just goes on and on and on...) I don't understand how you draw that the conclusion that omnipotence and omniscience requires that there be unity between God and creation. As to John, what John is getting at is that all of creation was brought about through the agency of Jesus the Christ. (BTW, no. Jesus was not an essene. essenic doctrine is incompatible with Jesus' doctrine) Perhaps I don't understand the significance of Chinese Tao but the bible does state that Jesus is the only* 'way' you're ever gonna see heaven. As to the "ineffable oneness, an all-encompassing nature", I don't a concordance handy so I can't check that out.(why does that always seem to the the way with these responces. I either don't know this or can't check that... :P) The bible is rather clear on our separatness from God and I really don't understand where you come up with all these ideas. Whether a group of monks decides they know the nature of God is inconsequential in that regardless of their opinions on the subject, they still have an objective reality(amazing how it always comes back to that. Hmm...) to deal with. The bible is also very clear that salvation does not* come by meditation, mindfullness, karma, gnosis, actions or any of these popularized substitutes but that salvation comes entirely through the grace of God and is entirely free of charge, no special knowledge or state of mind nessessary. I do realize that the Christian church has done some really* abominable things. But then again, these atrocious acts are in contradiction to biblical christianity and simply because a group a guys espoused a differing doctrine doesn't make the biblical christianity any less true. Of course God can't go* anywhere since there would have to be something* for go to go somewhere else in*. That should be pretty obvious, especially to someone with your reasoning capacity. In order to 'make room' requires (again) that there be some other thing for God to make room in*. I personally do not see the problem with having God exist independantly of creation so all this stuff about making room simply cannot work with my world view. For some things, I learn that I may just ever be able to answer some theological questions such as... Why does God care so much about us*? The answer to that lies in God's nature as perfect love and our free choice aspect. Since God loves us so much and our choice mechanism allows us to choose either him or else and naught but else to equipped with such a device, I find that of all of creation the God would try to redeem, it would be the one part uniquely able to choose him again. As the ah... enjoyment of hymns n' stuff... It's not the hymn or prayer or whateve that gives me such peace but the content. It works much like a protocol in that the hymn would be likened to Zmodem and the actual ideas presented in the hymn would be the data being transferred via Zmodem. Since God does* exist, when I pray, there is a two way conversation going on. I talk to God and he talks back. It's when God talks back that all the peace n' joy n' stuff I've talked about is realized. BTW, I just gotta tell you that the most awesome prayer experience I've had was when God put his hand on my shoulder and said something like 'Hey, be at peace, it's ok'. Now that* was an experience. (reading your later post, I see why refering to Jesus as like th Tao really isn't right) Like you said, if Jesus was like the Tao, then his claims to be* Christ would be invalidated since the 'Cosmic Christ' is not* the real thing. Yick. I'm not making sense anymore. Assuming that the way of salvation put forth by the early church founders, assigning conspiratal tones to their actions in affirming certain doctrines while denying others would be completely in line is rather silly. Really. They believed that the one doctrine was(and still is) the one true doctrine and that those things that contradicted it were nessessarily less than the truth and subject to denial. Did you expect them to extol the virtues of a doctrine not in keeping with what they held to be true? Gnosism is not* true no matter how much you want* it to be true. It's just not right and I just don't have the time or the energy right now to explain why gnosism really isn't true. (well... I have some* time). Jesus proclaimed that the truth was for all* mankind and not* for a select few initiates into some 'secret brotherhood'. The 'gospel of Thomas' is anything but a 'gospel'. Again, I just don't have the time right now but hey. Maybe later. For now, it's just not scriptural. Yick. It's four in the morning and I have to get up in about an hour(after going home) yick. 95May25 5:43 am from Jim Bexley Speed Yeah, but can God dance*? 95May25 10:21 am from ALLANON OK, SO DOMINION GETS A RESPONSE, BUT i DON'T? DAMMIT! i'M GOING TO START POSTING GWAR AND DEICIDE LYRICS EVERYWHERE. 95May25 4:13 pm from Iktome Kafka, I understand that they would disagree, that's not my point, I want people to think. So the only proper argument (not arguement from tradition) is the way is through him. Unfortuantly, I don't know the book where this is from. But metaphoricly the meaning could be to find jesus within you. This allows everyone to be in contact with god and god is a part of everyone. God can direct actions when in touch with it, but you can ignore god this way. (free will) When jesus says 'up there' read 'in here' it's the only valid way since there is nothing special about 'up there' anymore. I'm not trying to argue christianity, I'm looking for truth, which may be under the dogma of christianity. Anyhow, these belief was common of the early christians (before the words became to hard and literal?) and of St. Fransis of Assisi and other christian mystics. Why would you want to be a slave to god? Nice guy, he gives you the option: be my slave or suffer eternal punishment. Regardless of what heaven is, (merge with god?) hell I shall now interpete. (sorry, pet, said everyone would choose other then hell) Ok, God created satan (right name?). He said something like serve me and hold none above me. Satan had 12 pairs of wings, much more then the rest of the angels, he was the closest to god and loved god very much. God created humans and told the angels to serve them as well. Satan did not wish to be seperated from god. Satan did not see that humans were a creation (and part) of god. He refused to be parted from god out of his [selfish] love for god. God sent him to hell to hope that he learns his lesson. (this gives god better motives then normally thought, like giving humans the will to choose and punishing them for their choice, but that's a differect story) Satan sits in hell and thinks that god is mad because he wouldn't help the humans. So, in hell, he gives them everything they wanted in their life on earth. This is not the leason he should learn. Yet for the humans sent to hell (to learn their own lessons about material possesions) have a good time, except that they are seperated from god (worse then any thing). So an example of hell is the nexus for star trek generations. (and not that bad a place, unless you comparing it to being with god) 95May25 4:58 pm from Vladimir So if you go to heaven, you're a slave... If you go to Hell, You get whatever you want? 95May25 7:28 pm from Pet Jesus says in John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I think that pretty much establishes his claim to be the [only](by the wording it's implied and I think if I actually had a Greek text, I'd find that more clearly defined but since I'm purdy poor...) way to God. Now, you most certainly are not* to search for Jesus within yourself. John 8:56-58 reads (Jesus speaking)"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad. (Jews respond) 'You are not yet fifty years old,' the jews said to him, 'and you have seen Abraham!' (Jesus responds) 'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!' These two passages define Jesus as both God and the [one] way to reach God. Um.. I gotta go 95May25 11:21 pm from Dominion Jbs is a rockstar. 95May26 12:40 am from Pet Kay, so God is God and Jesus is God and as per Genesis 1:27 "So Godcreated man ..." we're most certainly not God or a part of God or able to become God. The created being is unable to ascend to the level of it's creator hence we cannot 'become' God(or Gods). The cosmic Christ is not* valid in that Jesus claimed (somewhere in the gospels) "I am the Christ", not 'The Christ is in me' or I have been enlightened with the gnosis into the realization of my (and your Christhood). Jesus [the man] said he was(and still is) the Christ, not that he was some sort of receptacle for the popularized cosmic Christ that is so obviously in contradiction to the scriptures. No, you are obviously not* arguing Christianity so don't even pretend* that you're doing that. The bible says that a man cannot serve two masters and in a related passage declares that if you haven't been washed in the blood of Christ, then your master is indeed Satan. I'd be surprized if even one of you didn't take issue with that so I'll qualify it for you. As long as you are not glorifying God, you're valuing something* higher than God and since the whole sin thing originated in an angel's self-love and then man's desire to be like God. There really isn't any other way if you put some thought to it. Actions benefiting yourself are an expression of self-love, actions done for the sake of others benefit neglect the character of God and are also a sin while actions done for the sake of God who as 'ultimate' good and as the arbiter of good and evil will be nature benefit yourself, your 'neighbor' and the one God. So anyway... 95May27 1:09 pm from Kafka Sure, "no man can serve two masters." But what if what you're following really *isn't* God? What if Jesus has been misquoted by well-intentioned people who only *thought* they understood, and downright diabolical individuals with their own personal/political/psychological ends at heart? What if Satan stepped in to help with the "proofreading" before Christ's body was even off the cross? I mean, just ferexample, the Twelve Apostles actually *met* Jesus. They knew him, heard his words first-hand, spent every minute of their lives after being recruited by him actually bathing in the glory of the Son of Man... Of these twelve, Thomas doubted his resurrection, Peter, the one who was supposed to be "the rock upon which the Church will be founded" actually denied knowing him fearing for his life (absurd! who, knowing Salvation PERSONALLY, could fear for his life?) and Judas actually SOLD HIM OUT. Now if these, Jesus' inner circle, were so unsure, uncertain, and frail as to completely screw up in the very PRESENCE of Christ, how can the gospellers, letter-writers, letter-forgers, and various editors, translators, monarchs and revolutionaries involved in writing the New Testament have captured anything even CLOSE to the truth? Again, I'm forced to paraphrase Burroughs -- in the Middle Ages, anybody living near the sea KNEW the world was round. They'd seen ships coming over the Horizon sail-first for generations, the curve of the earth plainly visible to the naked eye. They BELIEVED the world was flat because the church TOLD them to. And THAT may very well be the foundation of religion -- getting you to ignore what you can SEE, plainly, just by using the faculties God GAVE you, so that you can BELIEVE whatever they tell you to. Dammit, God wouldn't create ALL THIS, in such marvelous complexity, just to have it all boil down to a silly little handful of pages in an obscure rulebook with a *very* questionable history... 95May27 7:24 pm from Inigo What a Message!!! GOD!!! DAMM!!!!!!! 95May28 12:17 am from Pet "But what if what you're following really *isn't* God?" Well, if what I'm following isn't God, all of this will have been entirely pointless and I will have wasted my life in pursuit of a dream. I'll be the first in line to acknowledge that but ya' see, the proof denies faith and since I'm supposed to have faith in God, I cannot have objective proof that I can hold in my hand and say 'Here is my proof'. "What if Jesus has been misquoted by well-intentioned people who only *thought* they understood, and downright diabolical individuals with their own personal/political/psychological ends at heart?" Again, if Jesus were no more than some visionary who just happened to have some neat insights, my faith would be in vain but whether it is true or not, all the Christians I* know are the nicest, most caring people around and if being a Christian were no more than being an abnormally nice person, the world would still be a better place. "What if Satan stepped in to help with the "proofreading" before Christ's body was even off the cross?" That supposes the truth of the Christian ethic and as such cannot even be a valid question in that the Biblical view is than it is 'inspired' by God meaning that it is indeed* accurate even through translations which while not being literally 'word for word' are literal 'meaning for meaning' which would* preserve the message intended through translations. Anyway, we are all human and as such are certainly limited in our capabilities. Jesus said 'I will go away that the comforter might come' (that's pretty close) which indicates that none of Christ's followers had the indwelling Holy Spirit and as such were that much more likely to screw up. Only until Jesus had died and ressurected were any people empowered by the Holy Spirit. (see Acts 2) Anyway, now that true believers who have been baptised in the Holy Ghost are given strength and wisdom to deal with all the issues that come up against them. As far as translation goes, I don't think that the Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek translations to English lose more than some subtleties (sp) which with the aid of a concordance or in the cas of the 'Amplified Bible' can be brought to light. The Amplified bible is an English translation of the original greek/hebrew/aramaic texts which instead of just choosing a single way of stating a verse, includes all the conotations and alternative translations. You don't* have the same 'noise' in that translation. I don't have an Amplified but I assure you that if I had any money to spend, I'd get my grubby lil hands on a copy. 95May28 8:01 am from Mocha Pet, will you please stop saying that you are representing Christianity? You are not. You are representing your views. Not all Christian religions hold the views that you are so adamantly clinging to. You may be talking baout Christianity, but you are representing your religion. Are you Catholic? I have some questions for you. Are you a virgin? If not, are you married? Have you ever had premarital sex? Have you ever smoked? Taken a drink other than communion wine? Have you ever had unpure thoughts? Dreamt aout a woman? Dreamt about a man? Had a wet dream? Sworn? Taken the Lord's name in vain? Lusted after a woman who was already invovled with someone else? Cursed at your parents? Been angry with your parents? Yelled at them disrespectively? Stolen anything? Used birth control? Done drugs? These are all things that are considered "Sins" by hardcore Christians. Some of those sins can never be repented for, unless you were to devote your life to God like MOther Teresa. If all things that God made are good, then how do you account for people like Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, or other serial killers? God made Satan. How do you account for that? Are you admiting then, that God makes mistakes? If that is true, doesn't that make him no better than any human? Couldn't we admittedly say that every sin we commit is a "mistake", and since God makes mistakes when he makes evil people, then we are all God? 95May28 8:01 am from Mocha heh...I just remembered something someone told me once. Credit this one to Vange. God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Ray Charles is God. 95May28 10:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed Man, that Pet.. arguing like a true Christian. Ducking the question like it was contagious. 95May28 1:06 pm from Guile That's because he can't actually answer the question without denying his faith. Didn't he just spend the last two pages outlining that for you? 95May28 4:44 pm from Vladimir I don't know about the rest of you... But I really AM god. I sent Pet here to teach you my ways... You are all my creations, all of you. (well, except maybe dan, but he doesn't count because he's cooler than me) All sinners shall pay in the end. 95May28 5:35 pm from Liquid Sky Pet- Christianity is the most pointless crock of shit ever in existance. If you really* want to learn about it, read about the millions killed by Christians. That* will tell you what Christianity is all about. 95May28 6:44 pm from Python I'm not straight, which makes me a perverted deviant to most Christians. Yup, gotta love 'em. 95May28 7:43 pm from Iktome Oh, the wonderful christians. They are so nice. Yep, those bosnians. Yep, the ones that shoot doctors in the back are nice as well. The ones so full of hate that are filling up the extreme right of politics. Gee, facist are nice people. Or should we talk about the past, like pope Innocent the II, who declared a crusade on the king of france, and all of the troubadors. The rest of the god fearing christians in the crusade. But lets go back to the preists, no, that would be to easy. Your only arguement, that I'm not going to let my 3 year old cousin kick your ass in, is faith. But tell me, Why does God want you to not question? I mean, isn't faith just disbelieving all other proof, because of this logic from tradition (which is invalid, BTW)? Wouldn't questioning God be better? When you find the answers that prove God couldn't you stop having to rely on such irrational reasons? Why would God give you the able to change if you never tried to improve or develop? Why would God want you to be ignorant? (unless for better drones in heaven) Why don't you go ask questions like this? 95May28 9:25 pm from Spiral Architect Something that has been confusing me for quite some time is Jesus dying on the cross. Reportedly, he died after less than a day, while it was normal for anyone else being crucified to take several days to die, as long as a week even. This leads me to suspect that he most likely did not* die on the cross. With enough Roman officials who dissagreed with the whole charade, I find it quite possible that they could have pronounced him prematurely dead, drugged him to make him appear dead, etc. This would allow them to turn him loose, under the condition that he dissapear from public, under penalty of death. (I know this might not be making that* much sense, but I'm tired and 've got a headache, so I'll just answer any questions 'bout my little theory here) 95May29 4:42 am from Jim Bexley Speed Well, having iron spikes punched through your arms and legs, as well as a gaping puncture in your abdomen, might make it go by a little quicker. Especially since everyone else who was crucified was simply tied* to their cross. Personally, I have to agree with the Romans on this one. Who wants Christ around any longer than you have to? 95May29 12:52 pm from Spiral Architect There was a gaping puncture in his abdomen? I wasn't aware of that. I've never cared enough to research this theory, so I most likely am missing some of the details. I doubt that holes in his hands would be much of a factor, but the feet possibly. Remember though, that Pilot, the guy in charge of the operation, was against it. 95May29 2:31 pm from Vagabond Girl Yeah, they stabbed him in his side and apparently *water* came out or something. 95May29 5:20 pm from Iktome Jesus was inbred! He had very thin blood. God practices rape and incest (genocide, racism, sexism, slavery, and the list goes on...). If the christians would just admit it I'm sure they'd get alot more followers. 95May29 9:10 pm from Kafka Y'know, the argument always comes down to this pathetic little impasse -- what Christianity values above all is *faith*, and faith can't be argued, debated, is neither supported nor swayed by the facts, and is generally such an end in and of itself that theological debate becomes pointless. Which is, of course, the most dangerous part of the whole damn thing. We've got this safety circuit built into our heads, for our own survival, for those occasions when our brains are overcome by the paradoxes and puzzles of existence, when we can't seem to find the answers, when the Big Questions come knockin' at the door... "Shut down", it whispers. "Don't think about it. It's all very simple, really... Just have faith..." All we have to do is pretend that the vast, cold emptiness of space is just little dots on a big sheet in the sky, that our little, fragile, flawed shells are just temporary repositories for our eternal souls. And that's FINE. We couldn't survive without it. Maybe there's even a grain of truth in it, somewhere. But that's only a part of our brains, a subprocess designed to support the whole... What worries me, and what must be guarded against, is the temptation to make that the *only* part. That's when things like Crusades and Holocausts and Right-To-Life serial killers start popping up. Not that I think anyone here is in danger of going that berzerk... The fact that Pet still calls despite the fact that it's been made clear he's not going to win a lot of converts here at least proves he's got enough of an open mind not to just hang up on us and go snuggle up with his own kind on Eternal City or wherever... 95May29 9:46 pm from Dominion I was told that it took nine days for Jesus to die. And because of the position he was in, the build up of lactose in his muscles and joints..Caused his internal organs to come out from his mouth, and with the romans throwing stuff at him i/e rocks, sticks, ect. it tore up his skin covering his body forcing all of his insides to fall out. Yummy.... 95May30 1:22 pm from Guile I assume you were told all this bby your hardcore satanist buddies? 95May30 2:13 pm from Iktome Fine, enough of this faith stuff then. I was hoping pet would call again before I have to break him, but let's introduce him to the latest post-modern (existentialist) question-- WHY? Faith like yes or no questions, why precludes yes or no answers. But also for a twist, lets not let it be in the bible, lets make the little sheep, i mean pet (appropriate name change?) think a little bit on his own. Loosen him up (so I can whip him?). Tell me pet, I'll do one at a time to make it easier, Why did god create man? 95May30 5:55 pm from Vladimir I heard they cancelled Easter for '96 because some scientists or something found the body. 95May30 7:18 pm from Mocha Dominion: how could Christ have died in 9 days if Easter is only a few days after Good Frieday? We have to ssume that the "holidays" sort of coincide with the time frame from long ago. Plus, a build up of lactose would *never ever cause your internal organs to come out of your mouth. Use your brain, man. Jesus. Do you even know what lactose *does? 95May30 8:46 pm from Dominion Mocha: If you read it right, I said I was told. That isn't necessarily what I think, though. IF I was there, I would've cut Jesus's throat as soon as they erected him on the cross. 95May30 10:49 pm from Liquid Sky You never* question a true Satanist. Hmm....maybe I'll wait until Pet responds. 95May30 11:26 pm from PygmyJello Heh. I* erected Jesus on the cross. Oh boy* did I erect him. That jesus, hung like a fucking donkey. 95May30 11:27 pm from PygmyJello That's what the H. is for in Jesus H. Christ. H-U-N-G! 95May31 9:15 am from Spiral Architect Dominion, If I was going to execute someone, I'd make sure they died as slowly and painfully as possible. Gut wounds are an excellent method. Just stick a blade into their abdomen just far enough to cut the small intestine. They'll scream for hours before they die. 95May31 12:30 pm from Jim Bexley Speed Well, SA, you have to realize that four six-penny nails aren't going to hold a body elevated on a cross for very long. They were most likely very large nails in order to support the weight, or more correctly spikes. If you punch a large hole in each hand, it's going to bleed enough that you'll most likely die in several hours. Add to that the holes in the feet and the side wound, and that pretty much sums it up. 95May31 8:47 pm from Spiral Architect On a warm day, with the spikes still in there, the holes in the hands should clot fairly well. The feet will be a little worse, but shouldn't be bleeding excessively. However, without reliable information on the weather, size of spikes, severness of side wound, etc, an accurate analysis of the crucifiction can not be made. I do admit, that my theory is unlikely at best. 95May31 9:07 pm from Mocha Dominion: whether or not you were told that doesn't matter. You still posted it, and now it is connected with you and your thoughts. Tough break. Oh, and why, pray tell, would you have "slit Jesus' fuckin' throat?' Hmmm? Is it because you're all cool and dark and evil? 95May31 from Wednesday Actually, the nails on all depictions of christ go through the hands, but that really wouldn't have supported his weight. Most (all?) crucifixtions <sp> were done with the nails/spikes/whatever through the wrists. 95Jun01 12:36 am from PygmyJello Yeah, I'd assume that with the way the bones in the hands are arranged, that no matter where in the hand you put the spike, it would just rip through the skin between the bones (seeing that there aren't really any horizontal (or whatever) bones). 95Jun01 6:47 am from Dominion I dunno, just for the fuck of doin' it 95Jun01 7:27 am from Jim Bexley Speed No, most crucfixions were done with rope. But the Romans had such a great sense of humor, they decided "Let's nail* this fucker fopr real*!" I mean, think about it: they stcuk the crown of thorns on him, and put the legend "Jesus, King of the Jews" (when they they knew damn well he wasn't) on the cross. The romans were really Edists in disguise. 95Jun01 7:29 am from Jim Bexley Speed You know, in Roman culture, homosexual sex wasn't considered bad, unless you were the reciever, in which case it was somewhat humiliating. Wouldn't it have been really* funny if one clever Legionary thought, "Hey, let's really* humiliate this one..." 95Jun01 10:26 am from ALLANON DAMMIT, JIM. YOU YOU KNOW, THE CRUCIFIXION WASN'T THE MOST* PAINFUL WAY JESUS COULD HAVE DIED. i BET THERE ARE A LOT OF MUCH MORE SUCKY THINGS THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO HIM. I MEAN, COMPARED TO A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT CHRISTIANS DID TO 'WITCHES' IT WAS PRETTY MILD. 95Jun01 3:09 pm from Iktome crucifixion is rather one of the worst ways to go during that era, especially with a belly wound. They only crucified the worst of criminals. Unfortuantly, they didn't get his 'loyal' followers as well. 95Jun01 4:31 pm from Vladimir If I could be there when Jesus was crusified, I wouldn't slit his throat, I'd probably try to take out all the spikes except his right wrist. and cut a lock of his hair to show to some Bible thumper. 95Jun02 8:30 am from Jim Bexley Speed Yeah, just leave him hanging by one nail, so we could spin 'im 'round like the Wheel of Fortune. "I'd like to solve the puzzle. Is it 'INRI?'" 95Jun02 4:10 pm from Vagabond Girl Yeah, apparently a friend of mine went to Spain (where she thought she had lived a former life, but that's just her being weird) and saw the torture devices. She's into SM pretty deep, too, and she nearly vomited. This is coming from a woman who likes to set her lovers on fire and cut them. 95Jun02 4:27 pm from Iktome What? I've gone to some of those torture chambers, they are kind of kool. They did have some interesting ideas but they weren't above the level I could handle (fantisize about). They wouldn't let me take pictures though. I've gotten away from physical lately, it is rather simplistic. 'course religious fanatics aren't known for thinking or being creative. 95Jun02 5:00 pm from Mocha I love the theory behind the water test: If she floats, she's a witch so we'll burn her. If she sinks and drowns, she wasn't a witch...but she's dead already. Damn. 95Jun02 from Wednesday Well, sometimes with the witch trials, they tortured members of the suspected witch's family to get a confession. 95Jun03 12:28 am from Grass Weaver Typical of them. 95Jun03 8:24 am from Mocha I bet they were all hippies. 95Jun03 12:59 pm from Python Goddamn longhairs. Well, Pet appears to have fleed. How tragic. 95Jun03 from Wednesday or even fled... 95Jun03 3:08 pm from Kafka Speaking of crucifixion, have you ever heard about how some of the Saints & Apostles were martyred? It's like after the "nail" innovation with Christ, the Romans just went nuts... St. Anthony was crucified on a big "X", apparently just to be different. One individual, I forget who, was crucified UPSIDE-DOWN. That's gotta be unpleasant. Of course, even before Christ, the members of the Spartacus-led slave rebellion were crucified by the thousands along the road to Rome. They must have looked like telephone poles... Yep, those Romans were wacky guys, alright. 95Jun04 2:08 pm from Pet It was Peter (crucified upside down). I s'pose I could respond to all the accumulated messages but... I just can't bring myself to care enough to do it. 'specially since I'd have to go an' find my reply ( 'ts sitting round here someplace). Anyway, now that school is getting out, I won't be able to call anymore... See... my home computer's keyboard jack broke off n' I'm too lazy to actually try n' fix it or something. So anyway... That's the last you'll see of me here. BTW, 'case you're curious, (which you probably aren't but I don't really care) I also realized I wasn't 'practicing what I was preaching' in that the biblicly prescribed method for going 'bout something like this is 1- figure out what you're s'posed to be doing. 2- study like your life depended on it (it might sometime) 3- do an apprenticship thingy (fer practicle experience) and 4- go out n' do it. I never got past the study bit. I just went out n' did it n' oh well... 95Jun04 3:53 pm from Spiral Architect Sounds similar to the preachers in front of Northrup. They have no objective, but instead just go out and preach about sin and how we're all going to hell because we know some things that they don't. 95Jun04 9:33 pm from Death Reaper WE can tell* you never got past the studying bit, because your logic is flawed and full of holes. There's a fine line between faith and blindness. Actually, they're almost the same; except that you don't have to have faith to be blind. 95Jun04 10:33 pm from Kafka Well, Pet, go haul that log out of your eye, & we'll see if you're any more persuasive when you come back... Oh, and don't let the preachers get you alone in a room, no matter how much ice cream they promise you... 95Jun05 1:08 am from Grass Weaver Is there actually any real discussion on this wasteland or is it simply here for a few 'leet anal retentives (sp?) to slam people with origional thoughts and ideas? 95Jun05 3:56 am from ALLANON WHY DON'T YOU JUST PUT THE "(SP?)" AT THE END* OF YOUR POST? THAT WAY IT'D CATCH ALL* OF YOUR ERRORs. 95Jun05 2:59 pm from Iktome that's a good idea ALLANON. Pet probably saw that 'why question' and he realized the bullshit he'd been preaching. You can see the fevor has gone out of him in that last post. To late Pet you can never be stupid again, so don't try and regain that faith. 95Jun05 5:14 pm from Guile Grass Weaver, I hope you're not calling Christianity an original idea... 95Jun05 5:38 pm from Supernaut Though, I do believe some of the early christians saw natural occurances, and attributed them to "God's wrath." Actually, that's fairly common to many early societies. Sexually transmitted diseases to punish those having extramarital sex. It's no supprise that incest is forbidden in virtually every culture on the planet. After 3000 years of scientific discoveries, I think that we should be able to think for ourselves and not do things out of fear of some imaginary god's wrath. 95Jun05 5:53 pm from Supernaut Hmmm, that needs a re-write, but you get the point. 95Jun05 10:26 pm from Liquid Sky That's funny he never responded, for me at least. 95Jun06 5:22 pm from Iktome You never asked a question. I changed his religious ass. He should call back and prove me wrong then I won't go into the deprogramming field. (and so I could study someone truly...stupid?...dense?...FAITHFUL.) 95Jun06 11:43 pm from Kafka Supernaut: The early Christians were Greeks, educated in the cradle of Western civilization. They didn't need to make up superstitious nonsense about "God's wrath." They could simply have looked to Aristotle or Plato -- who would have explained calmly and logically that it was all a result of soul-loss through sneezing, or an excess of yellow bile... 95Jun06 12:00 am from Kafka Unfortunately, I don't think he's going to chamge. I suspect he was merely heavily intimidated by the mass of rampant unbelief, heresy, blasphemy, sadism, and misinterpreted Biblical quotations on the board. I doubt it was your "why" question that pushed him over the edge, Iktome. If CS Lewis could write several million pages on the subject, I don't think Pet would have had *that* much difficulty coming up with one or two paragraphs... After all, half the point of religion is to simplify all such questions to a single answer: "God willed it. Who are we to question?" I suspect he might just throw himself even deeper into the devilishly seductive logic of religious fanaticism, actually becoming the sort of hideous zombie who has stuffed their brain so full of chapter-and-verse rote memorization that all capacity for critical thinking is lost. He might start practicing the fine art of handing out pamphlets at bus stops just to get in shape in case he ever comes back. Or he might do just what I earlier complimented him on *not* doing, and spend all of his online time at Eternal City (Reverse psychology, I guess) And of course, then again, sometime soon he may experience a strange and terrible visitation in the night, "Bob", or possibly even "Ed", may explain "The Deal" to him in his sleep, and he may become one of the mighty armies of Truth, Justice, and the American way (only more dark and hateful, natch.) Sure, he'd still be a basically lobotomized dogma-spouter, a drooling dupe suitable only for soliciting donations at Amtrak stations, but he'd be one of OURS... 95Jun07 12:14 am from Liquid Sky Iktome looks for responses to his* posts, and is reluctant to read mine. When you say "half the point of religion..." do you mean all religions or just this one? 95Jun07 5:54 pm from Iktome actually I read reverse to see what you said but I couldn't find anything. That was the reason why I said you never asked a question, being that you hadn't. And the reason why no one answered your question, being that you never asked one. Thanks Kafka, I'd rather not glorify myself into believing it was that easy. Unlike the one I got those ideas from (and question). Did anyone know pet before? We could probably predict where he'll end up. (most of the religious fanatics must lose their inteligence other ways, because I've pressed them for bible quotes and they generally fail. Ministers and preists however are hard to get something else out of. Except those secular protestant ones common to the suburbs, but I digress) 95Jun09 from Satan's helper And then God said let there be women, so man has someone to Fuck!............. How bout we talk about someone cool, like satan. I mean how the hell did he get such a bad rep. All he done is get some bimbo(Eve) to eat a damn apple. Why is that so mortally wrong? Pussy! 95Jun09 4:06 pm from Alan B'stard So Jesus robbed the cradle? 95Jun09 8:20 pm from Iktome the devil didn't do that I don't think. THat was just some snake. Jesus is a bastard and god is a rapist. (a beam of light entered her in her sleep... (or something like that)) Jesus only fucked that one hooker most likely. 95Jun09 8:20 pm from Iktome I mean who would do some wacko who kept telling you he was god.... (heehee) 95Jun10 1:45 am from Kafka But let's leave my ex-girlfriend out of it... Actually, the premise of The Gnostic Gospel is apparently that Magdalene *did* know Jesus in the Biblical sense... I've never read the whole thing, but it's the only "Gospel" in which Jesus is treated as a HUMAN BEING. Which is, of course, why it's sacreligious. Oh, and LS, I meant all religions, some more than others. Answering the vast and unanswerable is one of the basic psychological impulses which calls "religious" thought into being... Although one need not turn to an organized or recognized religion to fill that need. Television works fine for most people, it seems. 95Jun10 7:05 pm from Supernaut Or a dead cat, but I digress. If memory serves me correctly, (since the books I'd like to check this in are currently burried under the mound of my possesions brought home from collage) Early christians (through about 1600 or so) were of a rather Aristotlean mind-set. In the late fourteen hundreads, though, this shifted to more of a Platonic mind-set. (this was primarily noticeable in their scientific methods and philosophy) (It's also possible that I have this entirely backwards) but if anyone cares, I'll give a little more detail about this once I dig out my HSci books. 95Jun12 9:49 pm from Kafka You probably have it backwards... Although the difference between Plato and Aristotle is basically the difference between a lot of opinionated, misinformed nonsense masquerading as rational thought and a lot of opinionated, misinformed nonsense masquerading as logical, rational thought. I don't think there was much of a "switch", to speak of. Most of the medieval Christian "philosophers" -- Aquinas & his ilk -- were equally aware of both Plato and Aristotle. Talking about Medieval Chirstian science is a contradiction in terms, though... these are the guys who ordered the Libraries of Alexandria and Constantinople burned to the ground and made Archimedes a banned author and geometry a capital crime. And I should point out that "Early" Christianity generally refers to the pre-medieval period -- the first 3-400 years of Christianity after Paul's name-change but before the Roman Catholic church became a political entity... (Probably best placed at the time of the conversion of Emperor Constantine, although heresies, antipopes and fringe groups continued to abound through the Middle Ages). 95Jun19 1:11 pm from Guile O N L Y O N E S A V I O U R By Tony Warren There is anger in the voice of many unbelievers. But their anger is not directed so much at christians, as it is at God. They most often say things like, If there is a God, why do children die, or why is there wars, or suffering. Their thinking is that God should stop it. What they don't "REALIZE" is that they are trying to make a God of their own, designed after what they think is best for him to do. God is not "SUBJECT" to man, man is subject to God. God doesn't have to answer to Man, Man has to answer to GOD. Questions like, why did God put me here if He's going to send me to HELL, this is the rebellion in the heart of man against God, which is what is really "SENDING" him to Hell. God is the creator of Heaven and earth, Holy. True, and Trustworty. It is "UTTERLY" foolish for Man to question Him like a suspect of some kind. That's like a criminal saying to a "RIGHTEOUS" judge, 'Sure I killed someone, but that's what I like to do. I don't deserve to be punished.' Shall the righteous Judge set him free? NO WAY! Not until the punishment has been paid. It's not God who is unrighteous in His judgements, it is man. Who is man to reply against God that He has done something wrong. The word of God declares, Romans 9:20 "Nay but O MAN, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to HIM that formed it, why hast thou made me thus?" The answer is "NOBODY!" and until we get that through our "THICK" skulls we have no chance of escaping the judgement. Salvation begins at that point. It's the realization that you can do nothing but throw yourself upon the Mercies of God, the Judge. And He will have compasion on you, He will abundantly "PARDON" you through the Blood of His dear Son, His Gift to us (who don't deserve it). You don't ask for it, You don't "GET" it. You're to proud to beg, The Lord Resisteth the proud. You get down on your Knees (HUMBLE YOURSELF) and say, Lord Forgive me, a Miserable rotten sinner, and the Lord will answer your prayers. But just as the lord is Merciful, He is also a God of Wrath. If you don't believe it, you just pick up the Old testament and start reading. I've got news for you! That's the "SAME" God, and He "WILL" Judge the unrighteous. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This Idea that God will save everyone is foolish and Crazy and comes out of man's desire to "MAKE GOD" in the image man would like Him to be. You see man "LIKES" his sin, but he wants to go to heaven also, so he makes this God who will allow him to do both. All he has to do is say, "I'm a Christian." But you see, that type of Church is not the true church, and that type of christian is not a true christian. God says, " He that says he knows me and KEEPETH not My word is a LIAR and the truth is not in him." STRONG STUFF! That's what GOD says. Now who are you going to listen to? The Church, The Pastor, Yourself, or GOD? Your church can't save you. And neither can these other religions that people find so exotic or new and different. Religion doesn't save us. We don't worship a religion. We worship GOD. I judge no man/Woman, I leave that up to God. My faith is not in the Corporate Church, but in the Invisible church, which is the Group called "TRUE" Believers. There "MAY" be many religions with some True believers in it, I don't know. There "MAY" be some believers in the catholic church, or the masionic Church, etc., because although your corporate church may have it wrong, it's possible you "MIGHT" still trust in Jesus as your saviour even though you sin in remaining in a unfaitful congregation. It's not my Job as a christian to judge other people on if they are saved or not. On the Other hand, My God has said there is Only "ONE WAY" to salvation. SIN, must be punished. And the penalty of sin is Death. Since we all sin, No one will escape, for GOD the Judge, is not Unjust like man the judge. Justice "MUST" be served. The Penalty must be paid. There is no Probation. There is no time off for good behaviour. There is no suspended sentence. A Holy GOD Demands that Justice "MUST" be served. The Penalty must be payed. Ony One GOD answers the question of How can this punishment of death, that justice demands, be paid. No Other God, religion, philosopghy, answers the "SIN QUESTION." Only one offers a "WAY" A substitute. A God/Man who if we knock, will come unto us and take upon Himself Our Sins, leaving us clean in the eyes of God. Laden with Our 95Jun19 1:12 pm from Guile sins, He would willingly go and die, that we might escape death. No mere man could do it. It Would take a "GODMAN". God, because no mortal man could go to the cross with the sins of the world and die and be raised again. Man, because man sinned, man had to be the one to pay. "ONLY" a GODMAN could do it. In The History of the world, there is only "ONE" recorded GODMAN. The Lord Jesus Christ. Also known as The Way, The Truth and The "LIFE". Without our sins being paid for by Christ, they must be paid for by US! ...One "WAY" or the Other So, when anyone asks, what's the difference between the Christian faith (Not Religion) and "ALL" of the others, The Clear answer is that it is the only one that truly answers the SIN question. It is the only faith where the REQUIRED Death, for sin, is paid for. Without which, No one can be saved. That is why Our Lord Clearly stated, There is "NO OTHER NAME" by which men can be saved. Without the Penalty of death being paid, no one can be saved. And without a GODMAN paying it for us, we can't be saved. And there is Only been one GODNAN. The Lord Jesus Christ. No one will have an excuse come judgement day. not Athiests, not agnostics, nor snake Oil salesmen. For God knows the heart. He made it. He knows He put there a inner knowledge of Himself in their minds and in Creation. Once again. It's a matter of Belief. I believe that. All True Christians Believe that. That's what faith is. Many unbelievers say they are sick and tired of religions saying they are the only true religions. That Claim has to be examined in light of scripture and considered. Sin has to be paid for and someone has to do it. Only Christ can! End of debate about religions. They all come up lacking Compared to Christ's. I'm distressed to hear religions decieving people into thinking if they worship a cow they'll be happy in the hereafter. Or if they kill many people in the battlefild, they'll please god/Ali whatever, and be in glory. I'm mournful seeing people worship statues, smoke hallucinaginic leaves, talking to supposed spirits, drinking blood, etc. All in the name of some God that will bring them happiness when they die. Do I judge these people? No, That's God's job. My Job is to spread the gospel of Truth that they would at least hear the word. Tell them what the Lord God says. If they will hear, well, if not, It's all in God's hands. The Worst and the best I can tell them is what God says. There is no other name whereby men may be saved. I don't condemn them, I witness in truth that maybe they may hear. If not, God is in control. He knows those who are His Lost sheep and who are not. If I am persecuted and reviled for doing this, so be it. I'll count it a Blessing of the Lord. The Time for Salvation is "NOW" Make your calling and Election "SURE" "Lift up your heads, Redemption draweth Nigh!" Peace, Tony InterNet: tony.warren.seekers.com 95Jun19 4:05 pm from Demosthenes Sorry, that was WAY to fuckin' long.... 95Jun19 11:52 pm from Dot I agree, I can't cencentrate that long... 95Jun20 12:44 am from Liquid Sky I didn't read any of it. 95Jun20 1:13 am from Guile Neither did I. What the fuck did it say? 95Jun20 2:45 am from Alan B'stard Too little payoff for such a big buildup. 95Jun20 11:19 am from Vagabond Girl He sure used a lot of "CAPITAL" letters and "QUOTES"! 95Jun20 11:19 pm from Odey Does anybody think that Jesus Christ could have been a big cult? 95Jun20 11:38 pm from Mina I have often times thought that that might be true... 95Jun21 12:33 am from Iktome cult- def. a religious group without political power. They were a cult once, and on their way to it again. 95Jun21 from Wednesday Hmm. i got stuff at church about cults. It was rather ironic. 95Jun21 3:04 am from Alan B'stard Were they for it or against it? 95Jun21 6:46 pm from Scorpion I have not gone to church in about ten years because all they do is make you give them money. I am sorry but I don't think I need that to practice my beliefs. The last time I went to church was when my family did not have any money to give the church because we had hardley enough money to buy me or my brother shoes. The pastor got really mad at my dad because he did not donate anything. I don't need a pastor to tell me what I believe. 95Jun21 8:24 pm from Guile I think if you really read this area, you wouldn't be "sorry", nor would you bother posting something so long. It's far more biting to be concise. 95Jun21 from **VEGA** "god is Dead" I forgot where that came from... 95Jun21 9:34 pm from Dot I've been to church like two times in my whole life. I don't feel like I've missed anything. I don't think that church is for me...for some yes, but me, no. 95Jun21 11:09 pm from Guile Why did you say that? "God is dead" -Nietzche <pardon spelling> wow. I suck. 95Jun22 12:13 am from Briareos If we're making god-related quotes, here's a conversation that Einstein and Bohr had about quantum theory(specifically the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle): "I'm sorry Neils, I got believe God plays dice with the Universe!" -Al "Oh Albert, stop telling God what he can and can't do." -Neils 95Jun22 11:00 am from Mocha "Nietzsche is dead." -God 95Jun22 12:31 pm from Guile I was praying that wouldn't appear. 95Jun22 12:48 pm from Scorpion I think you got that from a NIN song Vega. 95Jun22 4:49 pm from aaron the anarchist no, that would be your god is dead. 95Jun22 7:36 pm from Scorpion sorry. 95Jun22 8:52 pm from Dot Hey Scorp...am I your God! 95Jun22 9:33 pm from Mocha Guile: I knew you would be. :) 95Jun22 10:00 pm from Scorpion You are everything. 95Jun22 11:22 pm from Guile You draw this conclusion from the fact that you are nothing, I assume? Mocha: ;P, smiley-fucker. 95Jun23 9:05 pm from Alan B'stard Nietzsche is pietzsche. 95Jun24 7:03 am from Jim Bexley Speed Nietzsche was a putzsche. 95Jun24 from Red Wolf It looks like we've finally got a love connection on the Death Cookie! dot & Scorpmyster. 95Jun24 9:16 pm from Iktome you're confused, it's dot and iktome. and scorpion and iktome. and everyone and iktome. yeah. 95Jun24 from Red Wolf Uh, I'm not an everyone, am I? 95Jun24 10:51 pm from Dot Scorpmyster? Don't you mean Score myster? Why you think we having a love connection? I don't even know the bastard. 95Jun25 1:30 am from Auntie Sluggo RW is maybe takin the board banter a bit literal-like. 95Jun26 3:43 am from Kafka Y'see, it's this ability to seperate "fantasy" from "reality" that characterizes the more advanced members of the animal kingdom... 95Jun26 12:20 pm from Dot I went to St. Thomas today....it was likse a big religious festival... 95Jun26 5:41 pm from lynne Umm, are you sure about that? 95Jun26 8:56 pm from Dot Yes, it warn't the people working there, it was the people on the tour with me! That was all they asked about! AAAGGHHH! 95Jun27 2:16 am from Auntie Sluggo I'm entering the U. of Kansas this fall (anyone who tells a Dorothy joke gets it!! >8-[ ) and they have like 4 Baptist organizations on that damn campus. Along with a bunch of other sect groups. Why can't the majority have been the Lutherans or something, some church that doesnt try to convert everybody by force? I've been rehearsing for it in my head: "Look, I'm a queer pagan Jew, you don't *want me *there!!!..." Prolly won't work. I know when I just say I'm Jewish, they get this increased-excitement gleam in their eyes, like you're a prize fish they want to hook and bring back. And Assemblies of God people, I know for sure from experience, will start saying that you can be Jewish and still accept Jesus as your savior, and then they want to get all technical on your ass. Like hearing scriptural specifics is gonna make me *more excited about a religion. 95Jun27 7:31 am from Jim Bexley Speed My dog is the same breed as Toto. You can borrow him and run around campus shouting, "I don't think we're in... oh. Nevermind." Then skip away softly singing "Ding Dong! The witch is dead, which old witch, the wicked..." 95Jun27 7:34 am from Jim Bexley Speed When the Baptists come around and bug you, hack up an old A. Whitney Brown quote and say, "Baptists? Oh, you're the ones who hold people under water until they come around to your way of thinking. Sorry, I'd drown first." 95Jun27 9:57 am from Mocha A. Whitney Brown is *so cool. 95Jun27 11:28 am from Auntie Sluggo Shit, that's a really good idea... 95Jun28 5:13 am from Jim Bexley Speed Of course it is. It's mine*. 95Jun30 10:54 am from Auntie Sluggo Great, and you've killed the conversation, too... I've got to be careful though, getting into religious arguments (I've always been too ready to do that), because it's gotten so that I'm not even monotheistic anymore. That's not something I want any religious hardliner to use against me in an argument. 95Jul01 from Red Wolf Don't worry, I don't even know what the hell that means. 95Jul01 from Steph.. I once had a boyfriend that was athiest.. at least he claimed to be.. but i knew he really wasn't.. he just thought he would try and be cool. 95Jul01 5:51 pm from Guile I think everyone should try to be "cool". Not cool, but "cool". 95Jul01 from Steph.. I don't, a world full of cool people would be a world full of dickheads. 95Jul02 2:08 am from Jim Bexley Speed Then you go around sucking everyone* off! 95Jul02 5:04 am from Discobolus I'm glad to know that Steph wont stoop to being cool. It's nice that people suck. 95Jul02 8:45 am from Death Reaper We're through being cool. 95Jul02 from Steph.. Well uh thanks.. I feel that I don't have to be cool tolive on this earth. 95Jul02 5:35 pm from Guile You don't have to live on this earth, either. 95Jul02 6:57 pm from Briareos In fact, you don't have to live. 95Jul02 from Steph.. Oh go pack yourselves you fuckin nerds 95Jul02 11:09 pm from Briareos Hey.., I.. think.. steph.. is.. trying.. to.. make.. us.. feel.. bad... Please.. don't.. do.. that.. steph... It.. isn't.. very.. nice.., and.. doesn't.. really.. fit.. with.. the.. theme.. of.. this.. board... 95Jul02 11:10 pm from Briareos Hey Dan, can write a steph.. filter that will do that to every word? Please? 95Jul03 1:38 am from Guile Please, don't. Then we'd get "Steph...." whenever we wrote "Steph..". And that wouldn't be right at *all. 95Jul03 10:09 am from Deb We could just global replace Steph.... with Steph.. before saving. Or Dan could twit her. 95Jul03 from Steph.. You guys.. gotta.. calm.. down.. see.. I.. can.. do.. it.., too.. hahah i was just playing and you guys all acted so serious.. you knwo all I want is to see my name in every little post.. and thats what I got so my task is done. Well back to omaha I go people.. seeya on the 16th!~ AHAHAHAH 95Jul03 1:29 pm from Discobolus What, your 16th birthday? 95Jul03 2:28 pm from Guile Aw, geez, you're coming *back? 95Jul04 12:39 pm from lynne She always comes back. Just be thankful you don't have to stay with her. :P 95Jul04 5:12 pm from Alan B'stard Why? Does she squeeze the toothpaste from the top of the tube? 95Jul06 12:44 pm from Liquid Sky That's not the only tube she squeezes. 95Jul21 7:18 pm from MONTE CARLO I would like to use my tube soon 95Jul21 10:30 pm from Xaroth I was a tube once. No, really! Noone squeezed me, though. 95Jul24 8:12 pm from Auntie Sluggo I have this great old French hardcore album by a band called Trotskids. About the only coherent line on the thing is "Mon sexe est une tube de mayonnaise." Now, who can say it in Spanish? 95Jul25 12:52 am from Xaroth I could if I knew the words for tube and mayonnaise... 95Jul27 5:11 am from Jim Bexley Speed I could do it in Latin if I knew what "Mon sexe" meant. 95Jul27 12:16 pm from Auntie Sluggo You doofus. Hey everybody, Jim's a doofus. Doofus! Doofus!! 95Jul28 7:11 am from Jim Bexley Speed No, I just don't know French, dippy. I mean, I think* I know what it means, going for the painfully obvious, but 95Jul28 7:15 am from Jim Bexley Speed (ahem) ... "My sex is a tube of mayonnaise" doesn't make sense either logically or grammtically. Now, if that's right, and it's not supposed* to make sense, then it was a dumb thing to post in the first place, and you're no better than Steph... However, if the obvious is wrong, than you were stupid to just assume we'd know what it meant, which means you're definitely worse* than Steph... 95Jul28 7:52 am from Guile Wow. I'd figured you were gonna get it eventually, but you *still haven't. I don't even know the one non-English language I've attempted to learn very well, and I got it. And that language was German. 95Jul28 10:47 pm from Twist Speaking of German, isn't Bauhaus that collaboration between Pearl Jam and Neil Young? 95Jul29 4:53 am from goth chick i think you were the product of that collaboration, Twist. 95Jul29 7:19 am from Auntie Sluggo Jim, in English for a long time people used to say "sex" instead of penis or vagina, and I guess in French you can do the same thing. Make sense now? 95Jul29 7:23 am from Guile Actually, I believe it generally refers to the vagina, in French. 95Jul29 5:30 pm from Iktome My sex is a many headed beast. 95Jul29 7:32 pm from Pet Um... I just thought I'd tell ya'll I've been resuced from my delusion and am not Christian. I really don't want to get into why but hey, it doesn't make any difference so... :P Hummdee dum. 95Jul30 12:13 am from ALLANON OK, LET'S GET A SHOW OF HANDS. DID ANYONE REALLY CARe? 95Jul30 1:08 am from Briareos I didn't care*, but I'm glad to see that Pet's happier now. 95Jul30 1:28 am from Iktome happier? he said 'hummdee dum' that sounds like a vacuum of everything, which inclues happiness you know. 95Jul30 5:10 am from Jim Bexley Speed Well, in what small backwater country did they do that? 95Jul30 11:35 am from Auntie Sluggo The vacuum thing? Brainerd. 95Jul30 6:23 pm from Ceredwyn My vacuum doesn't pick up much of anything, especially not sock lint. 95Aug01 12:17 am from Xaroth Vacuums suck. 95Aug01 1:53 am from goth chick so does Primus. hee-hee. 95Aug01 3:04 pm from Ceredwyn So do mesquitoes and babies with bottles. 95Aug01 4:13 pm from goth chick ....and Edina chicks, too. 95Aug01 11:06 pm from Auntie Sluggo ...and mostly-grown people with plastic jelly-like pacifiers around their necks. 95Aug01 11:32 pm from Briareos ...and this line of conversation. 95Aug02 2:33 am from goth chick ......and Briareos. 95Aug02 2:10 pm from Briareos Dammit, quit. I don't mind being ripped on, but this room just sucks now. 95Aug02 7:11 pm from ALLANON ...AND BRIAREOs. 95Aug02 10:23 pm from Death Reaper ...and Briareos. 95Aug02 11:07 pm from Auntie Sluggo Bri, Bri, Bri is high and dry, dry, dry. 95Aug03 12:14 am from Twist I* am dry... and all itchy-like... 95Aug03 1:28 am from Briareos This is way* too easy. You're all too easily provoked. 95Aug03 6:07 am from Death Reaper ...and bRIAREOS. 95Aug03 4:44 pm from goth chick (hey, that was my* line, DR) ...AnD briareoS 95Aug04 12:15 am from Guile ...und auch Briarios. 95Aug04 1:04 am from Auntie Sluggo ...And a partridge in a... 95Aug05 3:45 am from Death Reaper ...bRiArEoS. 95Aug05 12:52 pm from Auntie Sluggo yEAH. 95Sep01 from Steph.. I love god and he loves me. 95Sep02 1:36 am from AfraidOfYourTreedom Is he good? 95Sep02 3:25 am from Death Reaper Great! 95Sep02 10:08 am from hypochrismutreefuzz he gives good godhead 95Sep02 12:36 pm from Alan B'stard The god I* don't believe in is a loving and just god! 95Sep05 9:52 pm from SaTAN I love Ed and Ed loves me, or so I *think.. 95Sep06 7:49 am from Jim Bexley Speed Ed loves no one. I finally get it. all of Ed's teachings now make sense, And I I know what I have to do. As of 3:41 am today, I have, in the name of Ed, seceded from your speces and formed my own. I am now genus Homo, species Melior. And I will now proceed to do to the human race what should be done... experiments*. You are all worthless monkeys. 95Sep07 4:39 am from Death Reaper Seig heil! 95Sep07 7:08 am from Jim Bexley Speed You too, DR. Sorry... 95Sep07 12:29 pm from Vagabond Girl Laugh while you can, monkey boy. 95Sep07 4:05 pm from Vladimir I visited the 8th and a half dimension once. 95Sep07 8:42 pm from aaron the anarchist i am the 9th. 95Sep07 10:52 pm from ALLANON i'm making that a banner on my computer. it'll say that every time i boot up. "seig heil!" "you too, DR. sorry..." that totally rules. i think the world is all going to end. at least for some of us. oh well. i know you realize that i'm not human, jim, but somehow i don't think being a worm is going to get me much farther. 95Sep08 7:48 am from Jim Bexley Speed Well, no. I win. 95Sep09 5:31 am from ALLANON yeah, that's what i figured. oh well. 95Oct03 11:48 pm from Phil I. Buster Hewwo? Anyone here? 95Oct04 8:52 pm from aaron the anarchist no. 95Oct05 2:10 am from Phil I. Buster didn't think so. i'll be going now 95Oct05 3:48 pm from Vladimir Thank God. 95Oct05 10:03 pm from Knara God has nothing to do with it.*ssh* He's resting. 95Oct06 1:05 pm from Eclipse No he's not, I killed him. 95Oct07 8:53 am from Alan B'stard God backwards is dog. 95Oct08 1:18 am from Guile So's your mother. 95Oct08 10:58 am from ALLANON no, god backwards is ed's dickwarmer when he feels like slumming. 95Oct09 10:03 am from Uptown Sinclair And how is the rest of your life going, eh AL? 95Oct09 5:19 pm from ALLANON heh.